<p>I am referencing the adults who have said they have never heard of Intel STS, not the kids. My point is that it is on the national news. Just like the National Spelling Bee. It is covered extensively by the press. I am not saying that all students should be groomed to enter it. I am saying that it is one of those student competitions that are part of american culture and adults are aware of it even if they don't know or have not investigated how to enter . I know about the National Spelling Bee, but my children did not embark on that path. I have never looked into the requirements, but I have "heard" of it. We are in Florida. All of three kids made it in our state. We all know many students at top schools who have not entered STS. It is not a prerequisite. Afterall only 1600 students entered this year and the top schools have received 26,000 applications. My kid's school does not groom kids for any science competitions. They do not have the opportunity to sit for the bio olympiad qualification test until senior year. STS/ISEF/science olympiads are not popular in our area. But all of the parents I know have "heard" of STS. Even if they just know of it as tha big science competition for high school kids.
Check the STS website and you will see the videos of the winners being interviewed by ABC news. The national press coverage of STS is extensive and that is why I find it hard to fathom how an adult with any interest in science or education could say they have "never heard" of this competition.</p>
<p>"I am referencing the adults who have said they have never heard of Intel STS, not the kids."</p>
<p>Gulp.... I'm an adult. I realize I am beating a dead horse, but why do you think I'm saying this? Why world I lie? I understand it might mean I don't care about science and educaction and I will have to think about that. I don't THINK it's true. Education is part of what I deal with everyday, but at a much lower (perhaps more, or less average) level. And maybe stuff like special education, 504 plans, IEP's, parity laws.</p>
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that are part of american culture and adults are aware
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<p>I, too, am a adult w(ho went to school in the dark ages and a crappy one at that). But, I too never heard of Intel STS until I started hanging around cc a few years ago. It just never existed in our city HS -- well, actually, it does now since the local paper just announced the first semi last year.</p>
<p>Yup. To paraphrase Mrs. Paroo in The Music Man, “Well, excuse me for livin’, but I never heard of it.” (She was talking about Balzac, not Intel STS.)</p>
<p>Arrghhhh! It is covered on the national news, USA Today, NPR. I am not accusing anyone here of lying. I merely find it hard to understand that an adult living in the US with an interest in current events and an interest in science or education would never have even "heard" of this competition due to the extensive National media coverage.
That's all.<br>
And with that, I apologize for taking the thread away from the OP's initial question. Best of luck to all your children</p>
<p>I can assure you that I have an interest in current events, and care about science and education. If it has been covered on the National news, let's see that would be...hmmm....one day a year they announce the winners and honor them on Good Morning America? Well, I am a single mom at work by then, and maybe I missed the evening news that day. But I assure you I probably saw it the other 364 days every year.</p>
<p>Congrats to the parents and their children who are semi-finalists.</p>
<p>And I spend all day watching TV in my bathrobe.
Oh no. I spend all day working on my kid's science project.</p>
<p>sry, I don't do NPR, and can't afford USA Today. But even the venerable LA Times only writes about the competition through its associated news outlets, i.e., not even buried in the local section. Now what Britney and Lindsay are up to is real news. :D</p>
<p>Well, my S did his experiment entirely in our 10x10 kitchen and neither his mother nor I could have passed a college-level science course if our lives depended on it. That, for us, covers the topic of at least one semi-finalist who did not have the use of a major lab or any other connections, nepotism, resource purchasing, etc ... (with a 10x10 kitchen you KNOW we're not rich). </p>
<p>As for waiting until after college decisions to announce winners for this one competition, for that to be fair, no one should announce ANY winners or honorees of ANYTHING until then. All-State orchestras should not be named, All-State football teams, etc, etc ... Do you see the ridiculousness of this? The suggestion is to penalize scientists, but no one else. </p>
<p>Do such major national awards present an unfair advantage to the winners? Well, don't adcoms rely on any and all awards in any field as a way of contextualizing achievements? Unless they audition every actor, musician, artist, or athlete, how do they know how good they are? A kid may be a great oboe player, and may SAY he is a great oboe player, but if he makes All-State orchestra, then this opinion is validated. I mean, even recs are suspect -- Joe Blow oboe teacher may think he's good, but what does HE know? </p>
<p>The point is, adcoms only have so much time to consider an app. They aren't going to trudge on out to every door of every applicant to test their skill in a certain field. The applicant's high placement in some sort of award competition helps discern the level of achievement an talent.</p>
<p>Congrats to your son, 4th house. His project must be very innovative.</p>
<p>NYMomof2-- if your son competes in high school science fairs, he probably will be asked by judges what his parents do. My son has been asked several times. Our field is very far removed from anything scientific, so that inquiry dies pretty quickly. </p>
<p>you wrote <snip>
"We have a desperate need to develop more scientists in this country. I can tell you that in our lab, we have not hired a US citizen in the last 20 years, and I can also tell you that the US has lost its dominance in science and technology."
<snip></snip></snip></p>
<p>This was a big topic at the National Junior Science & Humanities Symposium last year. One interesting point was that we'd be even further behind if we didn't have students coming from Asia (and in some cases, Eastern Europe) to complete their science educations. In the past, these scientists have stayed here, worked and had their families. Some of the speakers expressed concern that the scientists who come here to finish their education are now starting to head back home because of the increased opportunities in Asia. If this continues, we'll be even worse off.</p>
<p>cpq1xtbu, This is exactly the fear that we have. People from India, S. Korea, various Middle Eastern and Eastern European countries now have perfectly good opportunities at home, and no longer have to come to the US in order to have a scientific career. </p>
<p>If our son enters science fairs, even if the judges know that he is the child of two physicists, they will also know that his project is his own. It's people reading the newspapers who will make false assumptions.</p>
<p>It's great that your son did his project in your kitchen, 4th house! Our son does his project in our house, and I only wish he had a lab to go to. I don't like living in a junkyard!</p>
<p>Actually, S1's project is not a project yet. He is working on acquiring the knowledge and skills he needs for the project he wants to do.</p>
<p>S did his Siemens and Intel project while a) sprawled across the driveway with the laptop and the dog; b) sitting on the beach in Oregon; c) crammed into a Subaru Outback with three other large adults and four wheelie suitcases. Did pretty well, too, if you ask me. :) </p>
<p>S did a theoretical project. He wrote a resume, looked up profs at the local university who work in his area of interest and emailed two of them. Interviewed with both; chose one. Met with him once a week after school. Read the same papers that the mentor's PhD students did. S came to the mentor already having extensive background in the field. Had to write proofs and explain things to demonstrate he knew the material. Prof then turned him loose to go find something interesting. He did. Even the prof was not expecting what S developed. As for expenses -- S took the bus. He used our computer at home. We bought the occasional textbook from Amazon when he asked, paid for copies of journal articles and kept him well-supplied with printer paper. DH and I are not scientists or academics. Do his project? Ha! It took me five hours to read the final version of his 17 page paper, and he still had to explain it to me. I still don't get it.</p>
<p>NYMom, you are right -- some Intel and Siemens finalists <em>are</em> working at the graduate level in their respective areas. S spent years reading books, coming up with independent projects and "playing around" as he developed the skills he would need to tackle his project. He NEVER could have done his project from ground zero over a summer. There was too much background knowledge he had to acquire to get there, and at one of the competitions, the judges specifically acknowledged that in order to explain things as concisely and understandably as he did, he had to have thoroughly assimilated the material. To S, the fun part was the research itself -- everything else was gravy.</p>
<p>S's school admittedly produces a goodly number of semi-finalists. The school, however, does not connect students with mentors. What the school <em>does</em> do is to teach research design, scientific writing, resume writing and academic courses at a sufficiently high level that the students are prepared to move into those research spots and perform well.</p>
<p>I haven't read through this entire thread but Intel was known back in the day as the Westinghouse Science Talent Search. I'll bet CC parents remember that one.</p>
<p>Oh yeah!...</p>
<p>October Sky/Rocket Boys Homer Hickman was one of the winners way back.</p>
<p>Thank you silvervestersmom!</p>
<p>And I believe Homer entered ISEF and not STS.</p>
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I just took a look at the list of STS semifinalists. New York has 115 of the 300 (and, as noted above, 59 of the the 115 are from Long Island). Illinois, by contrast has a total of 9. Does that give you a hint about why someone might say they never heard of STS? It’s a good idea to be cautious in making generalizations about the value/importance of particular competitions/programs based on their popularity in your own region.
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<p>Exactly. The exact same kinds of kids -- with well-to-do, educated parents, motivated to go to top schools -- can be found in metropolitan Chicago as in the Long Island / Westchester area. But Intel isn't particularly known around here. I never heard of it myself before coming to CC. </p>
<p>This is NOT to demean those who are semifinalists / finalists, as it's clearly quite an honor and achievement, and more power to those kids as they continue their scientific pursuits. But it is a variant of the old saying "it takes money to make money." The clustering of the awards in certain geographic areas tells you that.</p>
<p>And as for ...
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if you think that success in the Intel competition should not be considered in college applications because wealthy parents "buy" their kids' ways into labs, then I hope you also think that excellence in athletics, music, etc., should not be considered, as wealthy parents "buy" their children coaching, instruments, special camps, etc.
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<p>Well, DUH. I have two nieces who have full-ride tennis scholarships and were nationally ranked in the sport. Great for them - they worked hard! But it couldn't have been done if they hadn't had well-to-do parents, where the mother could stay at home, could afford private coaches / lessons / trainers, could afford to fly with them to their tournaments and hire help to watch the younger siblings at home, etc. I've met their friends on that circuit and they all fit the exact same description -- extremely well-to-do parents who could spend that kind of money and an at-home parent who could fly and travel at a moment's notice. Without taking away from their accomplishments, I think the whole thing is just a racket. (Seriously, no pun intended.) It's a shell game ... the parents spend $200,000 over the years to polish their children's tennis skills, and then colleges give them $200,000 in scholarships. It's rather disgusting that colleges don't see through this.</p>
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think you are taking this to the wrong side. Why do you think everyone tries to send their children to best schools and hope to get into the best universities? My analysis is that they want to make the best use of the resources to learn and become successful in life and career.
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<p>Everyone? You must not be aware that for the majority of high school students in this country, their parents aren't interested in sending them to the "best schools" and "best universities." They're looking to go to a local and/or state school that fits the family's budget and isn't far from home, end of topic.</p>
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I think last year's 5th place winner was in a similar situation. It IS obviously impressive, so best of luck to your son!</p>