<p>
[quote]
The teacher expressed his desire to weed out as many students as possible with this test.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>The teacher may have a problem with having inexperienced kids taking AP Chem. He may want the system changed to offer honors Chem so he has better prepared kids for AP Chem. If this is the case, it's not fair to kids who want to take advanced Chem. I'd let her stay but I'd try to find out the back story. (BTW a C in college chem isn't unheard of... ;)</p>
<p>I would be freaking out somewhat too, but I would try really really hard not to freak out in front of my kid. </p>
<p>My kid was not a math/science person, and in this situation I would have considered advising her to take a different class. I would have done a lot more research first, talking to other parents whose kids had this teacher to learn whether the first test represented the difficulty of future tests, whether the teacher curved exams, how most kids did in the class in the end, etc. You might want to talk to the teacher one-on-one, instead of in the open house setting.</p>
<p>If she likes math/science, then I think it is important for her to stay in the class (unless it is really way over her head). A kid who has never scored below 94, who decides to take an easier class to continue that record, might be surprised by the workload in college. She needs to challenge herself.</p>
<p>If she stays in the class, I would consider getting her a tutor.</p>
<p>One item that hasn't been mentioned. From what I understand from my D AP tests have a very different structure from regular tests. If the teacher is using a mini version of the actual AP test (which both my kids' teachers did) and this is your D's first exposure to that structure, the test could have been a shock. It may just take some time for your D to understand how to perform well in that type of environment. I know specifically the short answer questions are very unexpected of students who haven't taken an AP class before (especially a science AP). Having said all this, when I mentioned your situation to my D she thought it would be hard to do well on AP Chem without having taken a Chemistry class earlier.</p>
<p>
[quote]
A kid who has never scored below 94, who decides to take an easier class to continue that record, might be surprised by the workload in college. She needs to challenge herself.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>We're talking about a 10th grader at the very beginning of the school year, not a senior!!</p>
<p>Some of the drop in grade is probably due to the fact that she's going from a regular science class (9th grade) to an AP science class. AP classes are more rigorous and it takes time to adjust from regular classes to AP classes.</p>
<p>Marite pointed out what I was going to point out - this is a 10th grader with no preliminary Chemistry class. I also think its very difficult to predict academic success based on elementary and middle school years, 10th grade seems to be a big hurdle year. Our system does not allow kids to attempt AP classes without both the preliminary class and teacher permission. I think if I were this parent I would as how many 10th graders were taking this class, how many 10th graders were taking this class with the basic chemistry first, I would ask how many 11th graders and how many seniors and then I would point blank ask the teacher what the perference is concerning my child -- to stay or not to stay in the class -- it's OK for the teacher to put their butt on the line, too.</p>
<p>My D took AP Chem as a 10th grader and did well in the course and on the exam. However, she also had taken Honors Chemistry (9th grade) and a summer course to prepare for the rigor of the course. Like momofthreeboys, our school does not allow students to take AP courses without the prerequisites unless there are very unusual circumstances. I cannot imagine D being successful in the AP course without having taken the previous course. </p>
<p>What does your daughter intend to do after she's completed AP Chem? Does she plan further studies in Chemistry? I would consider that as well. When admissions time rolls around, a "B" may be more significant than you think it might be. Just my two cents.</p>
<p>Since there apparently is a variety of practices, I'm sharing what our suburban school does fwiw. </p>
<p>Our Bio, Chem and Physics classes are regular or AP. Students take one or the other. Those who opt for AP, and are admitted to the class, generally are among our better students and they generally do well on the AP exam even though they have not taken the regular class beforehand.</p>
<p>While it would theoretically be possible for our students to take regular and then take AP, in practice our students rarely if ever do this.</p>
<p>If it was my D, I would let her decide, including tutor or no-tutor. Is Chemistry going to be important in her future major in college? The first exam means nothing except an indication that Chemistry might not be her subject. My D. had greatest difficulty with another subject - History. However, knowing that it is required in college for all majors, she was determed to make sure, that she will not need to take it in college. With enormous effort and tons of help from her dad (who could be called "tutor"), she got "A" and "5" on AP exam, no more Hisotry in her life! However, chemistry is not required for all major, so your D do not need to go thru such a torture.</p>
<p>Yes, I hear that this is a tenth grader. But I still stand by what I said. At some point, this kid needs to be challenged academically. If she worked really hard for those 94+ grades, I take back what I said. But I still think kids shouldn't just cruise along getting 94+ grades -- sometimes taking hard classes and getting Cs at first is good and then working hard for higher grades is good. If not in 10th grade, then when?</p>
<p>I agree that if the test was AP format, that could explain the low grade.</p>
<p>This student seems to me conscientious and hard-working already, as well as liking a challenge. hence the desire to take this class. Still, looking ahead, she will probably want to apply to top schools. While such schools are more likely to apply a holistic look at transcripts, they are not going to be showering a student with praise for pulling a B or B+ in AP Chemistry as a 10th grader, nor are they going to tell themselves that she did it without benefit of a prior regular or Honors Chem. Grades from 10th grade onward count for more than grades from the 9th grade and grades from k-8 not at all (so those 94s won't count for much).
The other concern I have is whether trying hard in AP-chem will affect her performance in other classes.That said, S tended not to do well in classes that did not sufficiently challenge him. But each time he took advanced classes, he was well prepared for them. He took AP-Chem in 9th grade and did very well, but he had taken the CTY course that summer, so he was extremely well prepared for AP-Chem.
As I said in my earlier post, it would be a good idea to see how she does on the next test.</p>
<p>as others have posted, individual decision, your daughter should make...</p>
<p>if it was just one test that she got a C on I would frankly not be too worried based on her history in the sciences. I wonder where the teacher is coming from and might check with the gc -- sometimes they know the teacher and can give a perspective on this. my d took APUSH with a teacher that didn't teach and she felt she wouldn't do well, so she dropped down to Honors History and got an A and felt less stressed. Before doing so we had checked w the GC who recognized the teacher was not going to change...worked out well..</p>
<p>Similar situation two years ago - and my d did drop to regular chemistry. She thought about toughing it out, but she already had a rigorous schedule - and chemistry was her least favorite science. Each school/teacher is different, but in d's case dropping to the regular class was the right decision. Friends who remained in the class had a work overload and in more than a few cases had a solid C. Of course, some A/B students remained at that level, but worked harder than in other classes combined. I was interested to see how the AP scores and SAT scores turned out - the teacher expected all 5s. I only know four scores: two 4s and two 5s; the two SAT IIs I know were solid also though I know the expectation was that the score would be higher.</p>
<p>I guess my advice would be to look at her overall schedule and try to determine whether or not the workload would be worth it. In my d's case, glad she dropped.</p>
<p>I thought AP Chem was really hard. I put in a lot of effort to get a high B/low A, but most of my tests were C's. Does the teacher have other grades besides tests to buffer low scores? I had lab and homework grades which made it much easier to get a decent grade. I still ended up with a 1 on the AP exam, but I did pretty well in the actual class. If I could go back, I would not have taken AP Chem.</p>
<p>I think you should leave it up to your daughter...</p>
<p>and for some of the posts in this thread... there are many things more important in your college application than the results of one grade in one class in 10th grade.</p>
<p>That's true - but I had a conversation with our school district superintendent who told me he had called and argued (unsuccessfully) with an admissions office that was refusing to accept a student precisely because he had a C in an AP science class. I don't know what school it was. He has become more lenient in letting kids drop back from AP even in the middle of the year because he realizes how tough some admissions can be.</p>
<p>Other factors to weight in:</p>
<p>The reputation of the teacher and how well previous students do in the class.
My son is taking AP chem this year and took honors chem last year, and expects this to be a challenging class. Only a few students get A or B in this class. A senior who also took honors chem before taking AP chem ended up with a B and straight A everything else for the last 3 years. Comments from other students (for whatever is worth): the teacher does not teach well, does not cover lots of material on the tests, tough tests, etc. This mean s is expecting to do extra work on his own. (Regular chem or honor chem is pre-requisite for AP chem in his school). In this case, it is not how challenging the class but how tough the teacher wants to make the class.</p>
<p>Second thing to consider is your daughter work load and activities. Can she afford the extra time to study if needed.</p>
<p>If the school does not offer honor chem, I do not see any harm to take regular chem if she already other challenging courses. If chem is important to her college major, she would want the best grade possible in AP chem.</p>
<p>Re: posts 35 and 36. There's no way a C in an AP course is going to trump an A in a regular course. And in my experience, a student will not be given the benefit of being only a sophomore when taking the harder course. A student would have to be pretty impressive for a C to be overlooked.
In our school, students who take AP science classes have already taken Honors classes in the subject. There are also CP classes for those students who want less challenging versions.</p>
<p>Our HS has changed the science program so that kids in the highest track go from the honors general science class freshman year directly into the AP sequence: AP Chem, AP Bio, AP Physics. My S's year was transitional: they did the general honors class, then Honors Chem, AP Bio, And then either or both of AP Physics and AP Chem. This was after years of having kids take first the honors class then the AP class. The AP Bio teacher was skeptical at the beginning of the year, but she found that the kids in the selected group handled it beautifully.</p>
<p>It sound to me as if the teacher wants to encourage kids who are not willing to work to succeed to transfer out. Since your D <em>is</em> willing to work--and has apparently done very well until this point--I say support her, and more power to her. It is much better for a bright kid to encounter an actual academic challenge and learn how to work, than to cruise through school. Eventually the ability to work hard at something will be required, and if it has never been learned the student may be in for a very rough time. My only concern would be if the teacher is not competent. If he or she is a known quantity with a good track record, no worries.</p>
<p>At our school gen chem is a prereq for AP chem. </p>
<p>I have heard from college professors in the sciences and from those who are in math and science fields that AP math and science are almost always a bad idea. They really are NOT the same as a genuine college calc or basic science class and so students who rely on them flounder. </p>
<p>I am sorry I did not learn this with Kid A. Kid B. has the benefits of my mistakes--he is loaded up with AP history, language and the like. He IS taking AP calc but I told him to repeat calc in college because no way does high school math, even AP math, prepare you for college math. This is based on my math major friend's experience and recommendation--she would not even let her kids take AP Calc in HS. She thought it was a waste of time.</p>