<p>I am posting this in the parent forum because I want parental opinions on this issue.</p>
<p>I am a senior right now in AP Chem. As it stands, I have a borderline C- in that class. If I do not get a high enough grade on the final, I will receive a D in the class. The final exam is worth 10-15% of my grade.</p>
<p>I have tried and not slacked off. I did all the homework ( I have a 100% in hw) , paid close attention and showed up to nearly every class and asked questions when I did not understand a concept. Yet, my poor test taking skills and a lack of fundamental knowledge of Chem has resulted in me doing rather abysmally in the course. I understand what is being taught, but do not have an adequate understanding of the basics. Plus, the class seems far too fast paced for my learning style. I enjoy Chemistry, but cannot seem to do well in the class. </p>
<p>If I do get a D in the class...
Should I
1. Drop it at the semester, and take only 5 courses second semester
2. Take it second semester and try my best to make a B or C second semester
What if I get a D again in second semester?</p>
<p>I have already stated on my college apps (UCs) that I will be taking AP Chem for a full year. I am worried sick about being rescinded and feel depressed right now. I have A's and B's in all my other classes.
I should have dropped this class earlier, but I was overly optimistic (and unrealistic) in my planning.
I cannot even concentrate because I am so concerned about my future and my college possibilities.</p>
<p>determined - I don't know your personality, so I can't make a recommendation for you one way or another. But it's hard for me to believe you're at risk for being rescinded. If you can accept that this one course won't make-or-break your admission, then you can start using this (admittedly lamentable) experience to your benefit. After all, this probably won't be the last course you struggle with, right? So how did you get into this mess? When did you know you were having trouble? What did you do to help yourself get back on track? Why didn't that work? Etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. And yes you should do the evaluation whether you choose to drop the class or not. Please don't be depressed. A struggle in one course just isn't that big a deal IMHO.</p>
<p>I can give personal experience with one of my D's friends and UCSD. He was not doing well in biology and wanted to drop it the second semester of his senior year. He had the GC call and see if that would affect an acceptance. </p>
<p>The admissions person said that dropping bio the second semester was not a problem (since he already had enough of the required science credits), but the first semester D was a big problem.</p>
<p>His acceptance would be held up until the school got his end of year transcript to make sure he didn't have any more such marks on it.</p>
<p>In the end, he didn't send in his transcript--decided to work designing video games instead.</p>
<p>UCSD is pretty serious about academics. Maybe the UCs you're applying to won't be so hardnosed. But try to get a C- in that class. Go to the teacher for help. If teachers know that you are really trying, sometimes they'll give you the benefit of the doubt. And don't be a troublemaker in class--those kinds of kids won't be any benefit of the doubt.</p>
<p>You'll have to ask the UC's what their policies are. In the meantime ask for an appointment with the teacher. Can you get tutoring? Can you do some kind of extra credit work? Can you drop down a level and take a different chemistry class?</p>
<p>I agree, see if you can drop down to a lower level Chem class or speak to the office about getting into a different teacher's class. It may just be you don't "get" this particular teacher's teaching style. Is there after-school tutoring sessions at your hs? </p>
<p>As for dropping the class, look at it this way. If you dropped, the D would be there forever. If you stuck it out, perhaps/maybe/hopefully you could improve the grade.</p>
<p>Agree with Mathmom...seek advice of your AP Chem instructor. The teacher will see that you have done the homework and ask good questions in class. Good luck!</p>
<p>From what I've heard and read the UCs may indeed rescind admission if one gets a D senior year and may rescind if a planned course is dropped. I don't think this is etched in stone and as 'ellemenope' stated it may vary with the particular UC but I do think it's a real concern.</p>
<p>It sounds like you're trying and not slacking in this course (as some do) which is good. Have you discussed your performance with the teacher and asked for their advice on what you should do to fill the gaps or prepare better on the tests? If not, I highly recommend it. Sometimes just the fact that you earnestly requested their help can sway them when they decide what final grade to give. You can also try to seek out one of the top students in the class and ask them for help in clearing up any basics you might not quite 'get' yet. Sometimes a student can explain it better for you than the teacher.</p>
<p>If you do end up getting a 'D' then when you get admission offers from the UCs you'll need to contact them and tell them you received a 'D' and see what they recommend. Maybe they'll have some alternatives for you. Keep in mind they might rescind but they'd likely do that whether you pro-actively contact them or not.</p>
<p>In the meantime - work like crazy on this course to ensure you don't get a D.</p>
<p>I would ask your teacher if you could do some extra credit to bring your grade from C- to a C. I don't think any high school teacher wants to see a student being rescinded from a college, but he is not going to give you a free pass. If you could get a C, then see if you could drop the course and still be accepted. If you get a D, I would get a tutor for the second semester. A friend of ours hired my daughter to tutor her daughter in biology. My daughter met with the bio teacher regularly to go over the class material, she organized notes and studied with the girl before every examine, the girl went from a C to A- in one semester. Ask the teacher who he would recommend.</p>
<p>Determined.. are you in my AP Chem class?! My friends and I feel the exact same way! We're borderline, we.. sort of get what goes on in class, but the class is just too fast paced.. a chapter a week doesn't cut it. Oh, and our teacher using other books' powerpoints doesn't help.
I guess that doesn't really help you, but these responses may :(</p>
<blockquote>
<p>I don't think any high school teacher wants to see a student being rescinded from a college, but he is not going to give you a free pass.<<</p>
</blockquote>
<br>
<p>I think this is true. I know some of the high school teachers and one told me that she just hates to teach math classes that have a lot of seniors in them. Why? Because they get senioritis, don't do the work, don't pass the tests and then cry on her shoulder to get a passing grade so that they can graduate or can keep their college acceptance.</p>
<p>If you are working with your teacher so that he or she can see that you are not like the above students but are actually trying and working, then you may be able to get her sympathy.</p>
<p>Can you drop the class before the midterm with a C? Or a Withdrew-Passing? I think a consultation with the teacher and the guidance counselor is in order. The purpose of any action right now would be to "protect the transcript."</p>
<p>
[quote]
I have tried and not slacked off. I did all the homework ( I have a 100% in hw) , paid close attention and showed up to nearly every class and asked questions when I did not understand a concept.
[/quote]
As others have said, at many UCs a D can be a problem. So I'd suggest seeing what you can do to improve this grade. My first question is how much have you been studying for this class? How many hours per week have you been spending on it?
[quote]
Plus, the class seems far too fast paced for my learning style.
[/quote]
To me, this is a clue to the source of your problem. In a lot of HS classes you can just show up, listen to the teacher, and you've got it. As the difficulty of the material increases, eventually most people hit a point where this no longer works. My guess is you're pretty bright (part of why you're taking AP Chem) and up to now you've been able to pretty much learn it all in class. Then you get the homework done, sometimes having to flip back to review in the text. The problem may be that you don't have an effective set of study skills and habits because you haven't needed them before. In a sense, then, you're lucky to find this out now rather than hitting the wall in college classes.</p>
<p>You need to be doing a fair amount of work outside of class. Not only with your text, but if it isn't cutting it for you in terms of learning then you need to find some other texts or online sites that explain it better. Just because your school passed out a certain book doesn't mean its going to be the best one for YOU to learn the material. And as for the tests, after you understand the concepts in science or math you have to practice applying them. In this sense these classes are more like tennis or spanish than subjects like history or health; you need to spend time practicing until you can readily and easily get the right answer. Fortunately there are books out there, titled something like "Chem Problem Solvers", that have thousands of worked examples arranged by topic. You just flip to the chapter matching what you're studying, cover up the answer, and try to solve it. Check your answer, read thru the solution if you got it wrong, and keep doing them until you can get them right. When you see a similar problem on your class test you'll solve it just as readily.</p>
<p>I am really interested in hearing the OP's response to how many hours per week are spent studying and doing homework for this class.</p>
<p>Attended "nearly every class"- sounds like you are putting in subpar class time, much less the extra time required to do well and learn the material. How does a HS student NOT attend every class? Do you plan to skip your college classes as well? Every class contains material not otherwise addressed, just as in college. College level, not HS style, ways of doing things. Mikemac's post has a lot of good comments.</p>
<p>As for the students who find the class too fast paced- that is why they are AP classes, at the level of an average college class even if taking a whole year to do a semester's worth of material. Some, but not all, students thrive on the faster pace. If AP courses give you trouble it means the more elite colleges, with much more difficult introductory classes, may not be a good fit for you. One good side effect of AP classes (conducted properly) is in differentiating students by removing a glass ceiling for HS classes.</p>
<p>Can't resist adding that my son, now well along in his college career, doing very well in honors math/science courses, used to denigrate slackers in HS- until senior year. He didn't like his AP Chemistry teacher, and when he was rejected from his favorite elite college he really slacked off- getting a C in June of senior year after taking the May AP exam which he got a 5 on. sigh.</p>
<p>I started a similar thread last spring about my D and her AP Chem. class. I completely understand what determined is going through, because my D was in the same boat. She had done well in Chem I the previous year, and attended all classes and did all homework for AP. But right about this time in the school year she began to experience some difficulty. A few bad grades, here and there, but nothing too serious she thought. All of a sudden, it snowballed and she had an "F". The teacher admitted to me that D came in with a weak Chem I background, and it eventually caught up to her. What most upset us was that in March it's too late to drop a class. The good news is that she worked as hard as she could (with no help from the teacher at all, btw), brought the grade up to a B- by June, and got a 4 on the AP test. Not a stellar result, but better than failing. For her class, the work was the hardest Jan to March, but then eased up. And some of the last marking period was post-final exam, since they took it before the AP test, and post-AP test, so it was much easier to get a better grade that marking period. Determined, can you find out from someone who took the class last year what their grade pattern was and if it will get easier? That might help you make a decision.</p>
<p>I believe that my troubles are from what everyone has suggested. I have greatly underestimated the difficulty of the course and do not have the proper study habits/foundational understanding. I knew very little Chem before and decided to challenge myself. For instance, I did not even know the basics of bonding or titration.</p>
<p>I may not be prepared to do well in the class, even though I did well in Honors Chem. I have always been a B+ student and am not a straight A student.</p>
<p>I put in about 3 hours/week in the class. I have only missed 2 classes since September, and those absences were due to illness. My classes until now have never required any more commitment than that to get an A/B in .I have done all the HW and pay very close attention in class.
If there is one thing I have learned from this experience- it is how to improve my study skills for college and where my weaknesses lie. I am not interested in elite colleges, mainly looking at good state schools (UC's).
I will try to maintain my grade and work harder next semester and perhaps get supplemental material- as others have suggested. There is only 1 week left in the course- so I will work hard and just learn how to study effectively for next time. I am just not accustomed to this way of studying. I am not very fast by nature-so a fast paced class does not always "fit" my learning style. It takes me time for me to process information and learn new material.
Thanks again for the help.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I am not interested in elite colleges, mainly looking at good state schools (UC's).
[/quote]
Keep in mind that the UCs (at least UCLA and UCSD but I expect most if not all), depending on the major, may have a pace at least as fast as 'the elite schools'. In addition, they don't handhold - you'll need to use initiative. Some majors aren't as rigorous as others but if you plan to major in engineering, the sciences, and a number of other majors, the pace and initiative required to succeed in the class will be far beyond that of HS including AP classes.</p>
<p>If the 3 hours per week, which is less than 1 hour per day, of studying for this class isn't working for you, as it appears it isn't, then just pump it up - triple (or more) that study time until your knowledge and grades improve.</p>
<p>
[quote]
my poor test taking skills
[/quote]
This is most often the statement students make who simply aren't prepared for the test. It usually doesn't come down to 'test taking skills' but rather, lack of preparation. YMMV</p>
<p>The good news is that you have a good chance of improving your grade if you simply try harder and put in more effort.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I put in about 3 hours/week in the class. My classes until now have never required any more commitment than that to get an A/B in
[/quote]
Here's your root cause. Not enough time. I don't say this to blame you, because I'm guessing nobody ever told you it was going to take a lot more time, and you figured quite rationally that what had worked for you in the past would work in the future.</p>
<p>Problem is an AP class is supposed to cover the same material you would in an intro college class. A rule of thumb in college is that you should put in 2-3 hours outside class for every hour in class. A typical class in college meets 3x/week for an hour, which means you need to put in 6-9 hours each week. It tends to be on the higher range for math and science classes. I'm not saying kids spend this much time at every college, or even in every class at challenging colleges, buts its a good rule of thumb to start with. If you find yourself doing well, THEN cut back the time if you think you safely can.</p>
<p>In addition to finding other materials online or at the library to learn the material, and in addition to getting a problem-solving book and mastering the material covered in each chapter in your class, I have a pair of suggestions. First is to get a book about study skills. One I highly recommend is "What Smart Students Know" which is written by a co-founder of the Princeton Review test prep service. It explains how to study for different classes; you study for history different than calculus, for example. You can also find a lot of material on the web such as Helpful</a> Study Skills Links but I'd really recommend a book to get a wider grounding. For example, when you mentioned the class seemed too fast-paced I'm pretty sure you don't know that you should be preparing for what's going to be covered before the class, going thru the section so that the prof is explaining and elaborating material you've already seen and not presenting everything completely new. </p>
<p>The 2nd suggestion echoes what TheGFG suggested earlier. You can learn the material, you just haven't spent enough time with it. In fact in some ways math and science are easier subjects to bring your understanding and grade up in than the humanities. The reason is it can be broken down into small pieces, and you can test your mastery on each and every piece until you reach proficiency. Here's what you do -- get one of the problem solving guides I mentioned earlier, then go back to Ch. 1 of your textbook and find the section that matches in the guide. Start working problems until you can do them, using the explanations as needed and even asking your teacher or one of your classmates for help if you're really stuck. If you can do them from the workbook you can do them on any test, and you'll understand the principles so that when they're used in subsequent chapters you know what they're talking about. Then go to Ch. 2, continuing until you've covered all the material from the semester. It isn't going to be quick, but the way I figure it you'll be making up the 90+ hours you didn't know you should have been putting in during the semester. If you spend 2 hours a nite doing this and a pair of 2-hour sessions on Sat and Sun you'll be caught up sooner than you think, and after even a week you'll see the progress you're making.</p>
<p>^^^ I totally agree.
I will do as stated above. Very well-thought out answers here. I need to change my approach to studies and raise my standards before heading off to college. Maybe this is why I have not gotten as many A's or as high SAT scores. I am just not independent enough and heavily rely on the teachers in my classes.I tend to just do as I am told. I also tend to depend on the teacher's lectures to get me a good grade. This happened last year in my chem-h class. My teacher was very mediocre, and I never did more than he asked, and thus never learned the basic material thoroughly. He gave me a good grade and I thought I knew the material. </p>
<p>If I still get a D for first semester...</p>
<p>AND I change my study habits,</p>
<p>Will it look better to drop the course or strive to improve my grade for next semester.
Would a college rescind an application with a first semester D with a second semester A/B.?</p>
<p>
[quote]
Will it look better to drop the course or strive to improve my grade for next semester.
Would a college rescind an application with a first semester D with a second semester A/B.?
[/quote]
You need to schedule an appt with your college counselor pronto to go over this.</p>
<p>3 hours a week is not enough time to absorb chemistry. </p>
<p>I had to relearn chemistry to help tutor a neighborhood a couple of years ago. I had to read the chapter, take notes on the chapter, condense all the notes onto one page (a trick I learned from law school--carefully organize and condense the chapter material on one page and know that page by heart), do all the practice problems in the body of the chapter and then pick out random problems in the back of the chapter for review. </p>
<p>Trust me, that takes a lot longer than 3 hours a week.</p>
<p>I'd do the "one page a chapter" thing for every chapter that wil be covered on the test and study those pages and work sample problems in the book like crazy in preparation for the final. You still have a good chance at getting at least a C if you spend your time prepping and less time on CC.</p>