That’s funny because my friend’s daughter thought Vassar was “too mainstream.” She ended up at a different LAC that is not at all mainstream…in her opinion.
I can’t remember if I mentioned it but D got a 1300 PSAT after a 1100 PSAT last year. She did not prep at all for this year’s PSAT. I think her ACT prep helped though.
700 EW/600 Math. I know it’s not an SAT but a 1300 SAT is the equivalent to a 28. The 700 is the same as her English and Reading ACT added together according to the concordance table. The 600 is also pretty close to her ACT Math score.
I feel like it could come down to can she speed up on ACT Math? Or does she have a better chance learning how to decipher how the questions are asked on SAT Math? And how does ACT science figure in?
I think that is all the more reason to encourage a timed practice SAT test as soon as possible in order to try and figure it all out.
A lot of people feel like the science is less about science and more about reading graphs, etc. and that the key is knowing how to approach that section of the test. Hard for me to say if this is true. But ime, kids who are stronger on the verbal part can usually improve on the science and math of the ACT more than they can on the SAT. Of course, that’s a generalization and ymmv. Most of the very successful (and expensive) tutors in our area push the less mathy kids to the ACT because they can really make a difference there.
@gardenstategal yes science is just about reading the graphs. D used the Love of ACT Science book and learned the strategies but she’s just not fast enough. Maybe the tutor can help with that.
And I think less mathy kids take ACT because math is just 1/4 of the ACT and 1/2 of the SAT. But D isn’t particularly un-mathy (ok that’s not a word but I’m tired). She was two years advanced in math starting in sixth grade and always gets As in math. That being said, S19 was also two years advanced and jumped to three years advanced and I can see big differences in their innate math ability. Certainly, D can hold her own through trig so I’m still not really understanding why her math score remains low. She would say it’s because she just cannot move fast enough. That doesn’t come into play for tests at school. Just on this ACT.
Hmmm, then maybe the SAT would work okay since it’s the speed that’s tripping her up. Tough one! Good she will have a chance to give it a go.
You may be surprised with her score on the SAT with a little bit of targeted studying. We carpool with a senior who was just accepted to an Ivy and she was explaining how she tried both the SAT and ACT and liked the format of the SAT so much better. She felt she had higher scores with SAT since she could take more time to think about her answers and go back to check them over. With the ACT she said she felt rushed and not confident of her answers. She took both tests multiple times and her SAT score was higher.
Its all so interesting to me since my brainiac 4.0 UW GPA junior has taken the SAT only once so far and he did not score nearly as high as he expected on it. He finished it in plenty of time and felt it was “easy”, but his score definitely didn’t reflect that! He’s a math/science kid so maybe the ACT is the right format for him.
One thing people talk about when choosing is not simply how well you do but how well you do in comparison to the other people that take that test. You could be good at both but if you excel at working quickly, you might do relatively better on the ACT whereas the person who feels somewhat flustered while working quickly may do relatively worse.
That’s why I’m backing off a bit on pushing @homerdog 's D to stick with the ACT. If she just can’t work any faster, she’ll remain at a disadvantage to those who are speedy. But with good math ability, she should be fine with the SAT. Maybe that little bit of extra time is all she needs.
My kid liked the SAT from the get-go, so never tried the ACT. Several of his friends did not do so well on the SAT yet did very well on the ACT. It is a very personal choice.
Just one person’s opinion but I think you are setting your D up for failure by “forcing” her to take the Feb ACT without the proper preparation. Only having 3 or 4 weeks to get her Math and Science in the 30’s will be really tough plus many schools don’t superscore the ACT but look at the best single sitting so she needs to study for and maintain her higher Reading and English scores while increasing her other two sections.
Similar to your D, my D20 took the ACT twice fall of junior year and her best scores in Math was 29 and Science 31. She was scheduled to take the ACT a third time last February but we decided to push that test date back and have her spend a lot of time over the summer to prep one one one with her tutor and take the ACT in August. She nailed the Science section with a 36 and Math 32 for a 34C. Had she taken it as planned in February there was no way she would have had this large of increase in M & S. By waiting we feel it helped her a lot.
I know you want her to write her essays this summer and maybe apply ED to Wake Forest etc, but none of these reasons are as important as getting a solid standardized test score before applications are due.
As others have suggested, use the next few weeks to take a timed and full SAT practice test to see what her baseline is. If it’s significant maybe she does do a complete switch over to studying for the SAT instead. If she doesn’t do well on it than she takes the ACT this summer only after she has given it her best and last shot.
Sorry, I’m so passionate about this I just have seen the extra time really payoff, at least for my D.
I wish I had had my S take the SAT. He was advised to take the ACT because math was the hardest section for him and it’s half of the SAT. But he really thought the time pressure was what made the ACT so hard. He did tutoring and raised his score 4 points on ACT composite. The tutor wanted him to take it a 3rd time but he was just done. there was no chance of him starting to study for the SAT! It all turned out ok but for my younger one, I will have him take a practice of each before too much prep.
Thanks all. First, we are not planning on D applying to Wake ED. That’s one option of many and she hasn’t even visited yet. Second, I’m going to have D take the SAT this weekend and then I’m going to call the tutor I’ve been in touch with and get her two cents. I’m going to ask her flat out if she thinks she can get D’s math and science scores up and what she thinks about the SAT.
All of D’s schools superscore. But the truth is, to get to a 31 or a 32, she has to get science way up. It can’t sit in the mid 20s.
My guess is that the tutor will say it’s not time to bag the ACT since science requires trickery and D obviously hasn’t employed that yet…at least not successfully. I’ve done the calculation and she needs to find eight points to even get to a 31 composite. That’s a lot of points. But remember she went from 26-33 on English so I think it’s possible she can find eight points between raising math and science. She’s been taking the test in a very straightforward way with no timing tricks and virtually no strategy. I’m hoping the tutor can suggest some of that to help.
D and I are not ready to give up and say she’s stuck at a 29 composite. Of course she doesn’t want to be burned out and it makes no sense for her to continue studying on her own. She’s already clocked so many hours and she needs a fresh way to approach the test.
You could consider finding schools you love where her current score is a solid match rather than in the lowest quartile. There is a lot to be said for meeting the student where they are.
@roycroftmom absolutely. But I’d push back on that a bit and “where she is” is not indicative of these current test scores. It just flat out isn’t. And I feel like we’ve been searching and searching for schools and I don’t even know of a school that’s a great fit with a 29 and the last thing I want to do is sell her short because she’s struggling taking a fast paced standardized test. I know a lot of students since I’m a math tutor. Many of the kids are in D’s grade. The schools she can get into now with a 29 is where some of them may go and she’s just a way better student. It’s so dumb that, if we can get a tutor to teach her the tricks to the science section, then she can go to a college that fits her better. Seriously. I cannot get over how ridiculous that is.
I think the investment in a very good tutor could help. If she’s practicing the “wrong” way over and over, it’s only going to make her faster at wrong, but not more right. (It’s also frustrating!)
Given the academic profile you’ve provided, she should be able to learn some strategies and tricks to really turn around the science (especially) and the math if that’s the goal.
One such school would be Hobart and William Smith, a popular match school for East Coast kids whose reaches are NESCACs. Her current ACT would qualify her for many of the school’s merit scholarships and if she could get it up a point she’d qualify for the rest. It’s similar to some of the LACs already on her list and has some Greek life. She could participate in dance even if she decided against the major.
The issue is that right now her test score is discrepant when compared to her academic performance, which is mostly A’s in mostly honors classes in a highly competitive high school. As we know GPA is far more indicative of test scores wrt college academic performance, so it does make sense to try to get the test score more in line with GPA. Test optional might be an option at certain schools, but some schools don’t look favorably on students with homerdog’s D profile applying TO.
@Mwfan1921, can you explain what you mean by this? What about her profile do you think would give TO schools pause?
Several of the schools you mentioned for her or were suggested on this thread are test-optional: Wake Forest, Bates, Connecticut College, Skidmore. Brandeis, too, although that was not yet named here.
She could apply without submitting her ACT scores, if she wants. Why not try for one of these strong colleges where they won’t look at her test score unless she requests it?
By OP’s post, student is not quite in the top 10% of her class. Almost every CC parent describes their high school as highly competitive. Student has spent countless hours already devoted to test practice, and has fairly consistent ACT/SAT scores, which are fine for hundreds of excellent schools. There seems to be an awful lot of pressure for her to raise her test scores to get to a college the parent wants.