My D is entering her senior year, and has gotten a couple “green light” responses from the academic pre-reads at the LAC’s she is considering. The coaches have invited her for overnights in Sept/Oct.
What should she/we be expecting in terms of what to ask coaches about a roster spot during the official visit or after?
What sort of communication should my daughter be having with the coaches, or them with her, after the official?
D is our first entering college, so we don’t have any real feel for how things go, what the timeline is, etc. Any help appreciated.
We just went through the same thing. I don’t know the right answer as this so our first too, but my daughter asked the coach directly where she fell on their list of recruits - and they all gave her very specific answers. She didn’t want to wait until the overnights as she was anxious to narrow her list. Good luck!
Thanks for the response! Did you get any answers from coaches that indicated she would not be likely to have a spot if she wanted it? The feeling I’ve gotten from the coaches who have asked her to come for overnights is that she has a roster spot if she wants it.
They were all positive and again very specific in regards to how many spots they wanted to fill in the upcoming recruiting class and where she fit in the mix. If they were inviting 25 recruits for 5 spots then I wanted to know that going in. I think by the time they invite you for overnights they want you on the team (especially if they asked you to do a pre-read), but I would also imagine they invite more than they have slots for since it’s somewhat of a numbers game. The question I have – and hopefully someone on this forum can explain – is the difference between overnights and official visits. I understand that the school pays for official visits but is that in addition to an overnight or instead of?
I believe D3 schools do not/cannot pay for anything. So, while we talk about “official visits” for D3 athletes, that really is a term of art which applies to D1 (and I think, D2) schools/prospects only.
D3 schools will invite kids for overnights and, though they aren’t technically “official visits” under NCAA rules, they serve a similar purpose of showing off the program and seeing if the prospect is a good fit. D3 kids pay their own travel, though the school will usually give them a meal pass since that is a benefit offered to all prospective students who do overnight visits.
When my daughter went on an OV at a D3, they gave her (not me) lodging, meals, and took her to a game. I know the school considered it an official visit because they enforced the ‘48 hours on campus’ rule.
You might be correct that there may be no such thing as an official OV in D3, but this school did treat it as one as when I asked if we could leave on Saturday and not Sunday, the coach said D couldn’t be on campus past 48 hours anyway. They did not pay transportation, but I think they could have if their budget allowed. Other than the ‘lodging’ (sleeping on the floor of a team member’s floor) and Fri-Sat meals, the visit would have been within the unofficial visit rules. They took her to one game (I’m sure there was no charge for women’s field hockey!)
D didn’t have 5 official visits, so there wasn’t really an issue of whether it was or wasn’t. I don’t know if the schools report OV to the NCAA, and don’t know if D3 schools do.
My daughter is visiting a D3 and the coach called it an official visit in the confirmation email along with saying she is welcome to watch a practice but per NCAA rules cannot train with the team. She is also attending a game the next day but didn’t address cost. We are getting her down there (basically a tank of gas) but I am assuming the rest they are handling.
I think you want to ask as much as you can about the team and how your daughter will fit in, knowing that some questions the coach may not be able to answer. First, will my daughter be admitted. This likely was addressed during the pre-read, but to the extent there are any lingering questions (sounds like there aren’t any), I would ask. Second, is she “guaranteed” a roster spot. This may or may not be a tough question. Some coaches have a policy of putting a recruit on varsity for at least the first year. Others do cut recruits. Ask. It may not change your opinion of the school, but it will at least eliminate a potentially nasty surprise. If you are uncomfortable asking, focus on what happens during tryouts (i.e., do recruits have to try out, how do tryouts work). Third, I would ask where the coach sees your daughter fitting in. As noted, this is a very tough question to answer. Still it may be nice to know the coach’s current thinking is as to whether he or she sees your daughter starting, or only subbing in in non-league games (not that the coach would admit to this). Still, it can be disconcerting for an athlete who has always been the best on the team to no longer be the best. As many have noted repeatedly, it is the way of college sport that there are no guarantees and your daughter should be prepared to compete hard for her position.
Beyond that, the questions should be ones that confirm that school x is where your daughter wants to attend.
I felt most comfortable confirming via email afterward that the athlete will apply early in exchange for coach support. Others may feel it unnecessary. Beyond that, it can’t hurt to drop a line every few weeks in the fall, just to make sure that all systems are go. It is convenient if your daughter plays a fall sport, as you can send off an update about a good game, team awards, or league and district awards. Or, you could ask advice about admissions (should I send in an AP score of 4, will this SATII score help or hurt). One way or the other, this type of dialogue confirms continuing interest by both parties.
As far as OVs, I never looked at them as official versus unofficial. The line of demarcation was whether the recruit asked to meet with the coach or whether the coach invited the athlete to stay overnight with a team member. OVs invited by the coach indicate strong interest, but that’s it. An OV combined with a positive pre-read is much better.
During a pre-application visit, the student will almost certainly have a meeting with the coach. During that meeting, questions to ask include: where am I on your list of recruits; how many players in my position (if applicable in specific sport) are you contemplating bringing in my year; where do you see me on your roster; do you hold try-outs for recruits, are recruits ever cut based on freshman year tryout, or is there a “guaranteed” roster spot for at least one year (or longer)?
In terms of admissions, a pre-read through Admissions office, not just a coach’s interpretation, is certainly preferable. Ask the coach how many times an ED candidate with similar credentials was rejected or deferred vs. admitted. If applicable, an applicant can ask for an estimate of projected merit award (knowing it is non-binding).
Non admissions/recruiting questions which might be relevant: are there athletes on your team who are pre-med (or engineering, if applicable), how do you handle lab or other academic conflicts? What about study abroad for your team – do kids do it, is it discouraged or supported? Do freshman have mandatory study tables? Do you monitor freshman academic performance in any way? Do you permit or prohibit participation in greek life (if applicable)? Do you encourage or require freshman team members to room together?
An official visit is a visit to campus where a recruit is provided a benefit not otherwise available to prospective students, excepting a small number of tickets to an athletic event on campus and (I believe) one meal. Usually this benefit is some or all of 1)transportation costs, 2)lodging outside of a dorm, 3)entertainment (although there are monetary limits), 4)more than one meal or meals outside of the cafeterias. Before a recruit can receive that benefit, the school must register the visit by using the recruit’s discrete NCAA clearinghouse identifier. That, by the way, is the easiest way to tell if a visit is “official” or “unofficial”. If the coach asks for the clearinghouse number, it is likely an official visit. If not, it is not. Schools in all divisions may offer official visits, although the vast majority of D3 schools do not.
Personally, I would not ask about roster spots at a campus visit (whether it is technically an official visit or not). I think recruits asking about roster spots evince a lack of confidence in their game, and an unwillingness to “play up” as it were. I do think it is very appropriate to ask the coach specific questions about the recruiting timeline, and what he is offering in exchange for your daughter’s commitment to the school.
In the NESCAC, the difference between official and unofficial visits is trivial. The primary differences appear to be: how many cafeteria meals are provided and whether a coach can pick up a recruit from an airport or bus station. Most D3 schools allow overnights for non-recruits. For this reason, I think the primary line of demarcation is whether the coach or the athlete asked to meet. Here is the NESCAC rule:
"Official Visits
•A prospect may not make an official visit until the opening day of classes of the prospect’s senior year.
•An institution may provide only one official visit to its campus for a prospective student.
•An official visit may not exceed 48 hours.
•Meals: An institution may provide meals (not to exceed three per day) to a prospect in the institution’s on-campus student dining facility. If a prospect visits campus during a vacation period and the dining facility is closed, a meal may be provided to a prospect (and the prospect’s parents/legal guardians) in a local restaurant. The meal must be comparable to the type of meal provided in the on-campus dining facility.
•Lodging: Lodging may be provided for a prospect. If provided it shall be in a manner similar or comparable to that of student housing (e.g., dorm room).
•Transportation: Transportation to/from the local bus/train station and/or local airport is permissible.
The NESCAC does not permit colleges nor organized alumni athletic associations to pay the travel costs of prospective students to the campus for the purpose of athletic recruitment. However, NESCAC rules permit coaches to pick up prospective students from and deliver them to local airports, bus stations and train stations. Per NCAA rules, providing such transportation is permitted but only for and during an official visit. If an institution chooses to provide a prospect with such transportation the visit is classified by the NCAA as an official visit and may not occur until the opening day of classes of the prospect’s senior year, may not exceed 48 hours and may only occur on one occasion.
An institution may provide a prospect with transportation to view off-campus practice and competition sites in the prospect’s sport and other institutional facilities located within a 30-mile radius of the institution’s campus. An institutional staff member must accompany the prospect during such a trip. During an unofficial visit it is not permissible for the institution to provide a prospect with transportation to these facilities to attend one of the institution’s home athletics events.
Entertainment: Although permitted by NCAA rules, NESCAC rules state it is not permissible to provide a student host with funds/cash to entertain a prospect on an official visit (or unofficial visit)."
I agree with the above that the distinction between official and unofficial visits in the NESCACS and D3 in general is largely immaterial, with one proviso. A recruit is limited to five official visits, which I believe applies to schools across the three divisions. So for a kid recruited widely across divisions, it is probably a good idea to keep an eye on how the school is reporting the visit to the NCAA.
Recruits themselves are only allowed five official visits. As I said above, I am not sure if that rule applies across divisions. I really doubt it matters though since there are vanishingly small numbers of official visits in D3 across the board.
"An institution may provide only one official visit to its campus for a prospect.
Division III does not limit the number of official visits prospective students can make to Division III institutions. Official visits to Division III institutions do not count toward limits established in Divisions I and II."
Instead of starting a new thread, I hope I can hijack this one with some OV questions since I’m assuming vikingdadof3 may be interested in this as well.So my daughter is going on her first overnight in a few weeks. Should she expect to sleep on the floor? Bring a sleeping bag? Or does the coach usually get into the nitty gritty details closer to the time? They’ve confirmed the days and the meeting time and spot, and said she will get more details a few days before. They have her spending the night before a game the next day which surprised me a little but maybe because it’s just an exhibition game (or they could know she is not into parties – which is true, I think she would be very uncomfortable at a party and would rather just “hang”). Any advice??
Bring a sleeping bag/pillow (and bath towel), though she may get lucky and be pleasantly surprised with a spare bed or air mattress.
Spending time with the team, before or after a game, can help get a sense of the team culture – good and bad. My kid watched one team lose badly and was surprised at how nonchalant they were about the loss, and even more surprised when offered both alcohol and weed by team members that night (a weekday). At another school, he enjoyed the post-game family style pasta dinner, again on a week night – much different feel.