@izzyb1 @24bunheadmom20 Congrats on making your decisions! (Though I have my fingers crossed that Ailey will need to pull some from their wait list ; ). @dudedrum @SCMHAALUM I feel your pain! Good luck as we come down to our final few days before deciding where to commit!
I must say, I’m glad my younger child has no interest in performing arts, so this college app process will be easier when we have to go through it with child #2!
@Pusheen1 Commercial dance would be doing things like music videos/concert tours or (more prosaically) dancing on a cruise ship or at Disneyland. A focus at Chapman for example, but not so much at programs like Ailey that prepare you for a modern dance company (though I’m sure some graduates go to commercial dance instead).
My D18 applied to UCSB (she was admitted for BA, not BFA so your D was ranked highly), she considered but didn’t apply to UCLA for dance as she wasn’t that keen on the style (very modern and theoretical), though she was admitted for her academic major. She also got into Fordham/Ailey, but didn’t want to go to NY.
I think you need to think seriously about whether your daughter is really going to go all in to be a professional dancer after college. She is clearly academically talented, getting into UCLA and the waitlist at Columbia/Barnard. However I don’t think UCLA and UCSB are necessarily the greatest schools for preparing for a professional dance career. Fordham/Ailey is, but isn’t at the same level academically as those two.
From that perspective (ignoring Connecticut College as I dont know anything about it), unless you really love UCSB I would lean towards UCLA as the most prestigious school academically (we loved it and my S18 picked it over Berkeley) with the chance to make connections in LA, but accept the waitlist spots. Barnard gives you both the academic and dance credibility so it’s an easy choice if the cost is not a factor.
However Fordham is giving up something on academics for a top tier dance program if you want to make that trade off and it’s affordable (not sure what the financial aid situation is for waitlisted kids). Incidentally my D18 and two other local girls we know have all turned down their spots there, so Fordham may go to the waitlist.
That’s what I meant about whether she goes all in on dance. It’s hard to take a middle road as you almost always have to give up something. At UCLA/UCSB it’s going to be harder to succeed in dance after college, at Fordham it may be harder to pursue some careers outside the dance world.
Also I personally would find it hard to pay drastically more for Fordham if you have instate tuition in CA, given the very poor financial ROI on a dance BFA, but that may or may not be a consideration for you. We were fortunate that D18’s best program was also the cheapest. That gave us the confidence to give up a bit of academic prestige because she’ll have money left in her college fund for a graduate degree or law school later on.
@Twoin18 Very much appreciate the info! Of her current choices UCLA is where she is leaning right now, as you have noted it is better academically than her other choices AND it is in a large city with strong arts community so chance to make connections/more opportunities than at Conn or UCSB. But my sense is that it is more commercial, and I never envisioned her in that environment when we started this process many months ago. She’s very artsy (so from that standpoint the World Arts/Cultures Dance at UCLA is good). I totally pictured her ending up in NYC and fitting right in there (and she felt that too obviously, since NYC was her first choice). She’s a very mature, independent 17 yo, has traveled extensively on her own (and paid for it herself) to foreign countries, etc. She could care less about the big sports and that type of thing at school (she attended 1 football game as a freshman her whole 4 years of high school). Would much rather go see an art exhibit or drama performance! But I’m sure she would find her crowd at a school as big as UCLA.
We are in CA so the price for UCLA is a bargain. All in with room & board plus tuition and books it will still cost us less than we are paying right now for private high school, so we can’t beat that. We won’t qualify for any need-based aid for Fordham or Columbia, can only hope for some merit aid. But from what I’ve read it sounds like if you are lucky enough to get a spot from the waitlist in May/June you have no negotiating stance and the money is mostly all given out by that late date. So likely would end up paying full-freight.
Does anyone know anything more about the dance program at Barnard? Anyone know someone who has gone there and given feedback? Thanks!
We didn’t feel UCLA dance was “commercial”. In fact more the opposite - there is a lot of dance theory in the BFA curriculum and perhaps a bit less actual dancing. But the standard is not quite as high as some other places so it may be more difficult to get a position in a professional company afterwards, as opposed to working at (say) Disneyland. I would recommend you compare the class schedule for the major and see if you like it - it sounds like the theoretical stuff may be interesting to your daughter anyway.
I assume no merit aid at Columbia, but Fordham has lots (we got $38K pa and an NMF would probably have got more), as you point out the question is whether there is any left for waitlist candidates. Both are really expensive, I would have a very hard time justifying over $300K for a BFA, though at an Ivy you would have plenty of company with people paying full freight.
@Pusheen1 - I’m the parent of a Barnard alum. Barnard has excellent offerings in ballet & modern, but it doesn’t equate with a BFA program and someone seriously interested in a career with a dance company would need to supplement by taking classes at local studios, such as Steps on Broadway. It’s a matter of time spent dancing – a typical Barnard technique dance class will meet twice a week for an hour long class. My daughter once took two dance classes in one semester, but that was her final semester when she had dropped down to part-time and only had one academic class.
There are an abundance of opportunities for private studio classes in NY – but all would cost money above and beyond the cost of Barnard tuition.
A BFA dance program is essentially going to have the dancers in studio every day, for many hours. My daughter attended a performing arts high school as a dancer-- and even at the high school level she had 3 hours of dance each day, including both ballet & modern on a daily basis. So if she had wanted a dance career (she didn’t), the Barnard dance program would have been a big step backwards from high school. But she wanted academics – so Barnard was a very nice and accessible way to continue her recreational love of dance.
I’d assume that some Barnard dance majors actually do manage to end up dancing with companies, but my guess is that most use their degree in other ways. The Barnard website says that most Barnard dance majors are double majors.
Bottom line: if your daughter wants to dance with a company, then a BFA program is better path. And yes, that’s a tough way to make a living.
I don’t understand from your post about “Columbia/Barnard” waitlist whether you mean that your D applied to both Columbia & Barnard and has been waitlisted at both; or whether you mean she applied to Columbia with the idea of taking a dance major at Barnard — which would mean required completion of Columbia’s core curriculum and likely make scheduling dance classes at Barnard more difficult; or whether you simply mean that she applied and was waitlited from Barnard alone. Barnard is not need-blind for the waitlist, so if you’ve applied for financial aid it makes getting off the waitlist more difficult.
Fordham/Ailey is a wonderful program and if the goal is to dance professionally post-college, then I think that would be the preferred route… if your daughter is offered a spot.
I think that UCSB BFA program might be the best option for your daughter – because it would be the pre-professional program she is looking for, but she would also have the flexibility to switch to the BA if she decided at some point that a broader education made more sense. (I don’t really know anything specific about UCSB/ UCLA / Connecticutt College for dance – I’m just commenting about overall program structure for the in-state public options).
I wouldn’t classify UCSB (or UCLA) BFA as a truly pre-professional program like Fordham (or say Butler, Indiana, Utah, Oklahoma, NYU or USC). IIRC the difference is UCSB started offering direct admit to the BFA this year rather then everyone being required to audition after the first year. But I think it’s still the same course as the BA for the first year. And from what we were told, most students double major. I don’t see a meaningful advantage over UCLA, although stylistically and academically UCSB and UCLA emphasize different things in their dance programs.
Some other things worth considering … campus size, class size, & dance program size. After our UCI and Chapman tours, my daughter knew she was a small school girl. She did not apply to any UCs as a result.
@Pusheen1 The only one I am somewhat familiar with is UCLA. I know about half a dozen girls who’ve attended the BA program. Most of them go there because it’s hard to get in academically. Just yesterday I ran into a girl who is a freshman and trying to transfer out. One girl graduated with a double major in psychology. So that’s the good part - they are pretty open with double major options. I went to their show last year. It was not at pre-professional level.
Thank you everyone for your comments - it’s enormously helpful!
@SCMHAALUM Do you know why the freshman is trying to transfer out? Is it the academics or the dance program? Just curious.
@calmom My D applied to Columbia only with the idea of being a dance major through Barnard. She wanted a co-ed environment rather than all girls. So she is waitlisted by Columbia. We won’t qualify for any financial aid so that shouldn’t be a factor.
@Pusheen1 It’s probably both. She said is not inspired in the dance program. I know her and several others from my daughter’s high school dance team. Non of them want to pursue dance seriously.
@Pusheen1 — Thanks for the explanation. I thnk at this point you should assume that she wil not get off the waitlst., as there is no reason for Columbia to prioritize applicants who are choosing Barnard majors. It’s unfortunate in hindsight that she chose not to apply to both, as Barnard does value its dancers, and over the years I’ve seen many dancers get admitted to Barnard with lower than typical stats. (I think Barnard might give the same boost to dancers that other college give to athletes - although that may be more focused on ballet than modern). Plus, of course, Barnard admits a larger percentage of applicants than Columbia.
But as I also noted, I would not recommend Barnard as a pre-professional program in any case, as compared to other offerings in NYC like Fordham. My daughter was very grateful for the availability of advanced level ballet & modern classes to round out her academic schedule…but she had friends studying dance at SUNY Purchase and there just was no comparison when it came to intensity of dance training.
@calmom Thanks. We are definitely assuming she won’t get off the waitlists at this point, as we know the chances are very slim so we don’t want her to get her hopes up. If she does it will be a pleasant surprise! I believe no one got off the Columbia waitlist last year or 2 years ago. I tried to get her to apply to Barnard but she wouldn’t listen. Did I mention that she’s very strong-minded too, lol?
She visited SUNY Purchase, but wasn’t impressed by anything outside the dance program. In the end, it didn’t really meet our test for the academic “Plan B” part of the equation so she didn’t apply. I guess it’s difficult to be straddling two canoes - trying to get into a top dance program AND at a school with strong academics. As a previous comment said, we kind of have to sacrifice somewhere. Unfortunately she hasn’t had enough years of training to get in to an NYU or USC type place, which would have satisfied parent AND child’s requirements ; )
Interesting that I haven’t seen any comments about Connecticut College either, so I guess that tells me something.
I just don’t happen to know anything one way or another about Connecticut College one way, so that’s why no comment from me. So it’s not a negative there … just a lack of information. Also I don’t know how much finances might play into the picture and if that is a factor for you (in-state public vs. private).
Have you tried posting in the Connecticut College forum? I guess maye it’s too late since you have to decide tommorow.
Agree with everyone’s comments on how great this group chat has been. Thank you everyone! Also want to say congratulations to everyone who has made choices and are taking the next step.
I’m very excited to announce that our son has chosen Fordham/Ailey. It was a struggle and the decision wasn’t made until almost the very last minute, but I think the idea of being in NY, pushing out of his comfort zone (Chapman would have essentially been just a continuation of his past school/private dance company experience) and that he can supplement the modern focus of Ailey with some private classes pushed him over the edge. We’re thrilled because we want him to see how far he can push this and the bonus is that Chapman gave us zero funds and Fordham gave a nice merit scholarship. It’s not in-state UC Irvine money but it’s a heck of a lot better than Chapman. Can’t believe we actually ended up with a choice that everyone is happy with! Whew!
@Pusheen1 We attended the UCLA orientation talk with the director of the arts school during the auditions and he made it very clear - if you want to train for a dance career and to improve your personal dance technique, UCLA is not the school for you. It’s very much focused on the exploration of dance as an art form, how it interrelates to other art forms, it’s social reflection into and out of dance and so on. While I loved the campus and would have loved to be able to say my son got into UCLA, we knew from that moment that it wasn’t the school for him. Still, UCLA is a pretty awesome school and if all of the above sounds really interesting to your daughter, it might be good for her.
Now, it will be interesting to report back in a year to see how things are going for all our kids. Fingers crossed that everyone’s choices work well and bring success!
Misty, Apologies, did not see this until now. My daughter was very academically focused as well as dance, and chose Fordham for that reason.
Pusheen, It doesn’t matter which school, double majoring as a dancer is hard, really hard. The basic issue is that studio time is fixed, and overlaps with prime time for a lot of academic classes. Even with giving Dancers first shot at registration every semester, they still find it challenging just to squeeze in the core, plus a minor, let alone a double major. It almost requires them to attend Summer sessions each year.
Chickies11, I’m probably too late with this, but Towson’s program is really good.
@dudedrum Congrats on a decision everyone is happy with!
It’s Commitment Day…my son clicked the ‘accept’ button to Stanford. USC has about 5 spots left and one of his friends just got in. They have accepted two kids from his graduating class, so he is not too hopeful. He will still be pursuing dance, at school and going to San Francisco, but will be challenging. Yes it will be great to continue to hear how everyone’s kids are doing.
Congratulations @SCMHAALUM and @dudedrum. Great choices!