<p>I heard from multiple people that math at dartmouth is horrible. Is there any validity to this? I'm interested in studying math but not necessarily upper-level theoretical math. I'm more interested in statistics, calculus, and other core math subjects. </p>
<p>does anyone know?</p>
<p>Horrible as in really hard, or horrible as in the program is poor?</p>
<p>You sound very similar to me. I love math, but I see no point in studying the really theoretical math. So, I am going to be doing the Math and Social Sciences major. That major allows me to pick one branch of mathematics, and one branch of social science to combine as one course of study. I am personally pairing a more applied mathematics with economics. This would entail a lot of statistics, and calculus.</p>
<p>But, even if you were just a math major, there is quite a bit of leeway to choose courses. A math major has different "tracks" they can choose from:</p>
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* Pure Mathematics Track: This track is intended for students for whom graduate study in pure mathematics is a possibility, or for those interested in a theoretical introduction to the major fields in mathematics.</p>
<pre><code>* Applied Mathematics Track: This track is intended for students for whom graduate study in applied mathematics or any other science is a possibility, or for those interested in an introduction to the major fields of mathematics with an emphasis on applications.
Standard Track: This track is intended for students who wish the freedom to experiment and develop a coherent major consisting of courses whose contents closely fit their personal interests. In particular, the required courses are not specifically geared towards graduate school in mathematics or a related area.
Teaching: Certification as a public school Mathematics teacher is available through partnership with the Education Department. Contact the Education Department for details about course requirements.
Requirements: The prerequisites for all tracks are essentially the same: three terms of calculus, and a linear algebra course. The required courses for the major include an abstract algebra course, an analysis course, and six other courses (generally) numbered 20 or above. Among the six may be one or two computer science courses. And, of course, in addition to the above requirements is the College requirement for a ``culminating experience,'' the options for which are described below. For details, please consult the ORC.
</code></pre>
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[/Quote]
</p>
<p>As you can see, there is quite a bit of flexibility. Since 6 of your 10 courses are whatever you want (as long as they are a high enough level), you can really tailor your major to your interests.</p>
<p>As for the 'horribleness' of the department. If you mean difficult, then that is probably true. If you mean bad, then that is certainly not true. Just because Dartmouth has a liberal arts feel, does not mean they do not excel at subjects like math. Also remember that most department reputations are made through graduate rankings. Dartmouth is a 'College' meaning they focus almost exclusively on their undergraduate students and departments. In case you are interested, the Math department recently moved to a brand new building (Kemeny Hall), which I have heard is quite nice.</p>
<p>Quick story - back when I was a freshman who didn't know anything (I'm a senior now), I signed up for Math 11 (multivariable calc) in the fall because I had taken Calc BC and needed a math. Taking the class was a mistake, but that's another story. Basically, I did well on the first midterm but got killed on the second one. Going into the final, I was pretty legitimately scared. I went to extra help with the professor, Vladimir Chernov, the day before the exam to get some questions answered and just generally prepare as well as I could for the inevitable the next day. His office hours were scheduled to run from 3-5. I came in around 3:30 and figured an hour and a half would be enough for Chernov to correct me on what I was doing wrong so I could go back to the library or wherever and study. Two other guys come in around the same time as me and we all sit down to studying, doing problems, things like that. We study all the way through to 5:30. We finish up one particular problem and Chernov lets out this big sigh, which I take as a cue to start saying that office hours were over (grateful enough as it is that he let us run over an extra half hour). As I'm getting ready to start packing my bag, he says, "Does anyone want a coffee break before we continue?" He takes us down a couple flights to the professors' lounge (this was back in the old Shower Towers which were pretty ugly overall but the lounge was outfitted very nicely), makes us coffee, chats us up. We ended up going back to his office and studying with him for another 4 hours. All in all, he gave us six and a half hours of his time the day before our final because he saw that we needed the help. It was one of the nicest gestures a professor at Dartmouth did for me, and I've had some absolutely fantastic profs here (not a put down on any of the others). The guy was also a good teacher. Sometimes he would explain a difficult concept that it was clear no one was getting, but when he asked if there were any questions no one wanted to be the one that raised their hand. So Chernov would say, "OK, I've learned that when I ask if there are any questions, and no one raises their hand, that means EVERYONE has questions! So why don't we just go over this material again, from the beginning." The class was very fast paced, but he had no qualms about pausing, going back, doing whatever was necessary to make sure we learned the information.</p>
<p>Now I realize this is only one professor, but hopefully this gives you a different viewpoint on what Dartmouth's math department is like. In terms of the actual quality of the department, while it isn't one of Dartmouth's flagship departments in general it is pretty strong and Dartmouth produces good math majors. Like someone said, a lot of the department rankings evaluate graduate departments and take into account things like how much the professors publish and what their reputation is in the field. Professors that focus more on teaching, which describes a lot of Dartmouth profs, not just in the math department, tend to get overlooked or underrated as a result. So there it is. You might not come out of Dartmouth's math department with the reputation you would have if you went to UChicago math or something like that, but I think that you can easily become a very strong mathematician here.</p>
<p>Amazing post, Xanatos.</p>
<p>xanatos i <3 you.</p>
<p>ps it was nice seeing you in the library today.</p>
<p>haha thanks. i get seen in the library a lot nowadays.</p>
<p>My daughter is a freshman at Dartmouth. What she felt about taking calc there was that the 10-week term was especially hard in math. Think about it this way: a calc course that you spent a year on in high school you will be covering in 10 weeks at Dartmouth. If you are the kind of person who needs to work a lot of problems or have some time to digest material to really get it (or as my daughter's high school physics teacher used to call it, "unpack" the material you learned earlier), it's not an ideal way to learn. By the time you "unpack" you may be in spring term in a linguistics class.</p>
<p>dotmom is quite right, especially for the intro classes. I took Math 3 my freshman winter because I hadn't bothered to place out, and I remember thinking there was no way someone who didn't already know a fair amount of calc could learn from that class. It was insanely fast. I've been to some math club lectures by profs who teach higher level math classes and they don't seem half bad though. I think the worst thing about our math department is the intro classes; after that it seems things get better.</p>
<p>Currently I’m a freshman math major taking multivariable analysis (basically proving everything in multivariable calculus, except not just for euclidean space but manifolds), who might be able to shed some light on this issue.</p>
<p>Upper level theoretical math comprises the majority of a math major. That is classes in linear algebra, analysis, topology, algebra, are REQUIRED for a math major. Honestly, if you’ve never taken a proof based class, I wouldn’t worry too much about whether you’re going to major in mathematics or not. You’ll most likely change into another major. Most people do. Typically math majors scored at least an 800 on their SATs and made the AIME. Though even that is usually not enough. A USAMO qualification or high AIME score (>6) is usually the best predictor.</p>
<p>Do not be scared by the freshmen math major - he is a bit off on his description. I recently graduated with high honors in math. I did not get an 800 on my SAT, nor did I take multi-variable analysis or topology. What is required for any major is linear algebra, and at least one abstract algebra and one analysis class (real or complex). Multivariate analysis is NOT required, neither is the honors Real Analysis course that most often precedes it. </p>
<p>My major consisted of very few theoretical math classes beyond those mentioned above - I took courses in differential equations and chaos math for example, and a seminar on network analysis. The department offers an increasing number of applied math courses, soon to include a number of mathematical finance courses. With that said there are theory courses, including graduate courses in nearly every major subfield of mathematics, open to undergraduates. There are also significant opportunities to conduct research with a professor. The major is not easy, but with some hard work and an interest in the subject it can be one of the more rewarding academic pursuits at Dartmouth.</p>
<p>The Dartmouth math major is very open to your choice of courses. I personally have taken probability, complex analysis, and diif eq, and am going to go into my junior year prepared to go in any direction I’d like. However, if you want to come up with your own courses or have ideas that you would like to discuss, the professors in this department are more than willing to answer any questions you might have. I would recommend you send them an email since they are likely to answer with pertinent info to the math major and you can get a better feel for what dartmouth life is like.</p>
<p>DBG - What are your plans after graduating with a math major? Did you combine this with another program?</p>
<p>My sister graduated with a math degree from Dartmouth in June '08 and starts grad school at UT-Austin this month in their PhD program. She studied one term at Colgate and found the Dartmouth math classes more challenging than Colgate’s, and not simply because of the shortened term.</p>
<p>Hopefully they’re not too hard 
I want to do a MSS major with a possible Phys major, but I’m no math genius.</p>
<p>Now that I’m a sophomore, I know a lot more about what a typical math major is like. As a freshman I placed out of some math courses and ended up taking the upper level honors courses quite early, assuming that they would comprise the majority of the math major. However, that’s quite far from the truth. It’s very possible to do a math major with relatively simple courses and without any honors courses. I only know this now after talking to my professors, who I’ve gotten to know through graduate courses. Again, I’m an outlier and most of the people I hung out with also outliers, leading to a pretty skewed view.</p>
<p>Hello guys, I am research colleges in the North East that have very good math Dartmouth being one of the candidates. </p>
<p>I am thinking of applying to MIT, Stanford, Carnegie Mellon, University of Chicago, Princeton, Harvey Mudd, UCLA, UC Berkeley. </p>
<p>I need more lower tier colleges for the North East, and am wondering if Dartmouth would be a good choice for someone looking to major in theoretical mathematics, </p>
<p>high F/A is also important for me, please reply or PM me.</p>
<p>Dartmouth is not a lower-tier college…</p>
<p>That said, other NE colleges with strong math and FA, though again, not exactly lower-tier would include Williams and Amherst.</p>
<p>it may not be lower tier, generally speaking however it is not as good as the other colleges I listed for math and sciences.</p>
<p>That’s a debatable assertion, based more on rankings of graduate schools than undergrad programs/teaching.</p>
<p>In terms of general quality and selectivity, Dartmouth is definitely <em>above</em> several schools on your list.</p>