<p>i'm going to be transferring out of my current college, but the prob. is i don't know where to go - Dartmouth or NU. so i was wondering if people could tell me what they thing on the matter and pros/cons</p>
<p>Falcon,</p>
<p>The two are so wildly different wed have to know what was on your mind. What are you looking for in a transfer beyond simply being a good or elite college?</p>
<p>What school are you transferring out of?
Why? etc.</p>
<p>good morning fs, I see you've rolled off the divan. Flick off those caviar fragments and put your shoulder to the wheel. That big apple won't redden without your sunshine!</p>
<p>Dartmouth- better to transfer into (sophomore summer, great orientation, great community). You end up knowing everyone in spite of being a transfer, which is rare. </p>
<p>Also, stronger community, great social life, amazing academics, and arguably a better reputation seal the deal.</p>
<p>"arguably a better reputation"</p>
<p>Ha! How did you say that with a straight face?</p>
<p>Are you serious? Anecdotally, in my entire life everyone I have known thinks Dartmouth has a prestige advantage. But if you want facts, here you go. </p>
<p>BRODY Prestige rankings </p>
<p>Dartmouth 5
Northwestern 16 </p>
<p>(Remember Dartmouth is 1/2 the size AND a smaller percentage attends law school (PR))</p>
<p>HARVARD LAW
Dartmouth 31 students
Northwestern 22 students</p>
<p>YALE LAW
Dartmouth 10 students
Northwestern 9 students</p>
<p>Now for other rankings:</p>
<p>WSJ FEEDER RANKING
Dartmouth 7
Northwestern 21</p>
<p>USNEWS RANKING (Northwestern has NEVER been ranked above Dartmouth)
Dartmouth 9
Northwestern 12</p>
<p>REVEALED PREFERENCE (<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com....php/t-626.html%5B/url%5D">http://talk.collegeconfidential.com....php/t-626.html</a>)</p>
<p>Dartmouth 10
Northwestern 21</p>
<p>LAISSEZ-FAIRE (<a href="http://www.collegeconfidential.com/...ngs/LF_rank.htm%5B/url%5D">http://www.collegeconfidential.com/...ngs/LF_rank.htm</a>)</p>
<p>Dartmouth 7
Northwestern 16</p>
<p>The point is as far as I can tell NU has NEVER been ranked higher than Dartmouth is any US undergraduate ranking. Honestly I think rankings can be bogus but everything I have ever read shows Dartmouth has a slight prestige reputation edge over Northwestern. That in no way means you should choose it over Northwestern. You can be eqully successful after graduating from both.</p>
<p>I for one believe that Dartmouth is certainly not more prestigious than Northwestern. Especially in street credit Northwestern actually has the significant edge, although neither are particularly "prestigious" by this definition. Among academic circles I would argue that both are exactly the same.</p>
<p>Please refer to the arguments in this thread: <a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=213483&page=2%5B/url%5D">http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=213483&page=2</a></p>
<p>selectivity wise, as someone who gained admission to northwestern and not dartmouth, I can say that Northwestern is easier to get into (in my experiance.) Also, I can say first hand that at my school 2 are going to dartmouth while 14 got in and 7 are going to northwestern. And I go to a school on the east coast.</p>
<p>In terms of reputation, in conversations Ive had with my college counseler I can tell that Dartmouth was above Northwestern in at least the field I am interested in (economics)</p>
<p>Yes, Dartmouth is generally considered more selective than Northwestern. However I don't believe that this makes it more prestigious.</p>
<p>In terms of economics reputation, Dartmouth definitely does not have the edge in reputation. If anything, Northwestern has an advantage (look at faculty publications); Northwestern is regularly included among those schools with the best economics departments in the nation. However at the undergraduate level there probably isn't a significant difference between the two.</p>
<p>Veggz, that's because Dartmouth DOESN"T have a graduate econ dept!! At the undergraduate level Dartmouth wins on so many fronts due to that focus. When you apply to get your MBA or even go to Econ grad school the rank of the Econ dept if its a top 25 school is meaningless. If you want to rank undergrad based on graduate departments you might then call Michigan better than Northwestern and Wisconsin better than Amherst. </p>
<p>In my high school we had ONE acceptance to Dartmouth and 7 into Northwestern, with about an equal amount applying to both. The truth is most people going to top schools recognize Dartmouth's strengths and thus for the "important" population that actually effects your life Dartmouth is grouped about one level higher. Northwestern is a great research institution and Dartmouth is an awesome undergrad school that at the undergrad level commands more prestige among those in the know.</p>
<p>Slipper, I don't see how the absence of a grad program at Dartmouth makes its "focus" any better than at NU. In fact, since NU does have a highly reputable graduate program it is able to attract the best professors, who are the same professors that teach the undergraduate population. On the other hand, comparing public schools that are 10x (or 20x) the size of elite private schools such as NU and Amherst in terms of undergraduate quality is absurd, simply because a school of that size will inevitably run into faculty accessibility issues. If you want to compare faculty ratios to determine undergraduate focus, you will see that NU's is actually lower than Dartmouth's (according to PrincetonReview). Thus, I fail to see where your statistical evidence is coming from on how Dartmouth "wins on so many fronts," especially as I assume you have never experienced an econ class at Northwestern.</p>
<p>Also, it is worthy of noting that NU has won the Fed championship for the two years that it has entered; while this probably can't be used to judge which is "better," it does say something about the quality of teaching at NU.</p>
<p>As for your last point, as I have stated, it is probably undisputed that Dartmouth is more selective than NU. However, selectivity is but one factor in ranking undergraduate institutions (albeit a rather hefty one in the rankings you cite). If you want to compare admissions stats to Ivy league grad programs, you should also take into account the number of students applying to these programs (as stated in the other thread). Northwestern is a hugely preprofessional school, and as such the vast majority of students enter industry immediately after graduation. Again referring to the PrincetonReview, only 4% of NU undergrads go to law school immediately following graduation; you state that Dartmouth has a lower percentage, but I didn't see it reported when I checked. Regardless, if you check the amount of students going into institutions not affiliated with the Ivy league (i.e. investment banks, consulting, etc., dream jobs for many econ grads) you will see that NU has the clear advantage. Several of the elite firms do not even include Dartmouth among their core recruiting schools.</p>
<p>I apologize if this response was long, but I just find it absurd to think that Dartmouth is an overall more prestigious institution than Northwestern, mush less one that beats Northwestern in its undergraduate economics program "on so many fronts." I would think that at the undergraduate level the two are essentially equal (but of course very different), with Northwestern excelling in economics over Dartmouth.</p>
<p>Umm...actually Dartmouth has many more elite firms recruiting on campus. In terms of consulting Dartmouth brings McKinsey, BCG, Bain, Mercer which are three of the top 5. Northwestern has Bain and Mercer in this coveted group. Same goes for the top banks, of the top 5 elite banks, 4 recruit at Dartmouth while 3 at Northwestern. Of the top 5 MBAs Dartmouth has more students enrolled (for a smaller class) at Stanford (third most represented undergrad at GSB), Columbia, Wharton, and Harvard WITHOUT factoring the smaller size. Factor in the fact that Dart is less pre-professional as you mention and once again Dartmouth wins. Only at Kellogg and Chicago are there fewer.</p>
<p>I think you have a serious misunderstanding of how Dartmouth is portrayed. Dartmouth has much more money per student, has more elite firms on campus, has better placement at top grad schools (show me one top 5 program besides Kellogg or Chicago where NU beats out Dartmouth and its TWICE the size), is a part of the Ivy league (instant recognition), has a much bigger infrastructure catering ONLY to undergrads etc. My guess is 80% of those who get into both choose Dartmouth (I know that is the stat with Cornell).</p>
<p>Slipper, you are misreading what I said. What I said was that Northwestern is included among more of elite recruiters' CORE recruiting schools (the schools that they would most want to hire employees from). This is not to say that firms such as Goldman Sachs do not recruit at all from Dartmouth or Northwestern, which they do, but neither is in their core group of schools. That being said, not only is Northwestern included among most of these elite groups of schools but they also have a greater presence at these banks (undoubtedly in the Chicago and S.F. offices and even in the NY offices- I have friends at all of these). Also, it is absurd to say that any of the firms you mentioned do not recruit at either Dartmouth or Northwestern. I know for a fact that ALL of them recruit at Northwestern (I attended the info sessions for all of them except for Mercer my freshman year); however if you visit the top IB's you will see clearly that NU has a much greater presence.</p>
<p>Please see this thread for updated information; not all of it is completely accurate but most of it is, and you hardly see Dartmouth ANYWHERE on these lists: <a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=75179&highlight=investment+banking%5B/url%5D">http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=75179&highlight=investment+banking</a>.</p>
<p>I admit that I do not know as much about Dartmouth as I do about NU, but I do believe that many of the things you are claiming cannot be supported by statistics or are irrelevant. For example, it is simply not true that Dartmouth attracts more elite recruiters (see above). Secondly, I cannot imagine why a student would apply to both Dartmouth and Northwestern, as they are completely different schools with different atmospheres. A student applying to Dartmouth is likely looking for the east cost atmosphere with the Ivy league label, and would likely be applying to Northwestern knowing little about it other than that it is a respectable school in the midwest. Many of my friends at NU simply only applied to two or three schools (I guess that's how they do it in the midwest) since they saw exactly what they were looking for in NU. Finally, I say again that the fact that Dartmouth caters exclusively to undergraduates is a moot point. Does this have any relevance whatsoever to quality of teaching? I certainly don't think so.</p>
<p>An example: two graduates from Dartmouth and NU respectively apply for the same position with identical campus involvement, GPA, etc. Do you honestly think the employer will always (or even the majority of the time) hire the Dartmouth grad without question?</p>
<p>Veggz, Dartmouth DOES bring the best recruiters, rather that thread is completely off base. Those are not all the elite firms at all, rather a randomly selected list from the top 7 or 8 banks. Dartmouth IS a core school for Goldman, Citigroup, UBS, Merrill Lynch, and Lehman which are pretty much most of the top banks. Dartmouth has more partners at Goldman than any other school. Thinking NU has a bigger presence is CRAZY. That thread is bogus, high schoolers have no idea which the top banks are. I actually posted a list of the top firms and where they recruit but CC took it down since I posted the links and I can't find the list again.</p>
<p>Not a highschooler but the parent of an 08 who is in Hanover for sophmore summer.</p>
<p>Actually,</p>
<p>BRIDGEWATER ASSOCIATES
CITIGROUP CORPORATE & INVESTMENT BANKING
LEHMAN BROTHERS
JPMORGAN
PARTHENON GROUP
MERRILL LYNCH
MERCER OLIVER WYMAN
McKinsey
BARCLAYS CAPITAL
DEUTSCHE BANK
GSC PARTNERS
LUBIN LAWRENCE</p>
<p>All had resume drops on campus on July 5th and are now in the process of conducting on-campus interviews which started yesterday and continues until July 26th for fall and winter internships with the 08's for the following positions:</p>
<p>MERRILL LYNCH
FALL OPERATIONS ANALYST INTERN / Intern/Extern
Industry: Diversified Financial Services
Location: Jersey City , NJ</p>
<p>SLACK BARSHINGER
ACCOUNT MANAGEMENT INTERN / Intern/Extern
Industry: Advertising/Marketing
Location: Chicago , IL</p>
<p>BRIDGEWATER ASSOCIATES
FALL/WINTER/SPRING INVESTMENT INTERN / Intern/Extern
Industry: Hedge Funds
Location: Westport , CT</p>
<p>BARCLAYS CAPITAL
WINTER FIXED INCOME TRADING ASSISTANT / Intern/Extern
Industry: Diversified Financial Services
Location: New York , NY
CITIGROUP CORPORATE & INVESTMENT BANKING
WINTER OR SPRING INV.BANKING INTERN / Internship/Externship
Industry: Diversified Financial Services
Location: New York , NY</p>
<p>CITIGROUP CORPORATE & INVESTMENT BANKING
WINTER OR SPRING INV. BANKING INTERN / Intern/Extern
Industry: Diversified Financial Services
Location: New York , NY</p>
<p>LEHMAN BROTHERS
CAPITAL MARKETS WINTER ANALYST INTERN / Intern/Extern
Industry: Commercial Banking
Location: New York , NY</p>
<p>LEHMAN BROTHERS
WINTER INTERNSHIP Program in the Investment Banking Division / Intern/Extern
Industry: Investment Banking/Brokerage
Location: New York , NY</p>
<p>DEUTSCHE BANK
GLOBAL MARKETS FALL OR WINTER INTERN / Intern/Extern
Industry: Diversified Financial Services
Location: New York , NY</p>
<p>GSC PARTNERS
FALL FINANCIAL ANALYST INTERNSHIP / Intern/Extern
Industry: Hedge Funds
Location: Florham Park , NJ</p>
<p>GSC PARTNERS
WINTER FINANCIAL ANALYST INTERNSHIP / Intern/Extern
Industry: Hedge Funds
Location: Florham Park , NJ</p>
<p>JPMORGAN
INVESTMENT BANKING SPRING ANALYST INTERN / Intern/Extern
Industry: Investment Banking/Brokerage
Location: New York , NY</p>
<p>PARTHENON GROUP
WINTER ASSOCIATE INTERN / Intern/Extern
Industry: Consulting
Location: Boston , MA</p>
<p>MCKINSEY AND COMPANY
WINTER OR SPRING BUSINESS ANALYST INTERNSHIP / Intern/Extern
Industry: Consulting
Location: New Jersey, Boston or D.C , MA</p>
<p>MERCER OLIVER WYMAN
WINTER CONSULTANT INTERN / Intern/Extern
Industry: Consulting
Location: New York , NY</p>
<p>LUBIN LAWRENCE INC.
FALL OR WINTER CONSULTING INTERN / Intern/Extern
Industry: Consulting
Location: New York , NY</p>
<p>Goldman is scheduled to come to Hanover on July 31.</p>
<p>Well, even if all of the people in the thread were highschoolers (which I presume not all of them were), I doubt they would randomly select schools to post..</p>
<p>My point is, to an IB/management consulting firm the schools are equal. And a further point: after you accept an IBanking position you are asked to pref locations in which you would like to work. Many students from NU are from the midwest, and so I know many that will be staying in Chicago (whose office is dominated by NU/UChicago grads). However I also know that Northwesterners have a huge presence in NY, and I would like to see the supporting statistic that Dartmouth has the most partners at Goldman. Regardless, I'll take your word for it (though I am highly skeptical) and just say that it doesn't mean much. Goldman is but one of the BB firms in NYC and any school below Harvard and Wharton is pretty much viewed as equal in the recruiting process.</p>
<p>Well, for one, the former CEO of Goldman is a Dartmouth alum (now he works for the President)</p>
<p>Listen, I'm not bashing Dartmouth or anything of the sort (I applied and was accepted to both institutions back when I was a clueless senior who didn't know what I wanted). I have the utmost respect for both Dartmouth and NU but I just think it's preposterous to think that one of two schools that are so close in academic reputation is without a doubt a better institution than the other.</p>
<p>I just thing the statement "arguably a better reputation" isn't signifying a big distinction in prestige. There is a small difference though, largely due to selectivity to be honest.</p>