<p>Both are great schools, on quarter system, good language programs, good study abroad, good business/econ-ish programs, (unfortunately) cold weather.</p>
<p>Could anyone provide some insight to other similarities & differences between the two?</p>
<p>size, both of the college and of the town.</p>
<p>Right. I neglected to mention I'm already aware of the urban/rural difference. Is there anything else? Like atmosphere of college, attitude of student body, teaching quality, social life, etc?</p>
<p>It's hard to beat Dartmouth's focus on the undergraduate. Everything there is for an about undergrads. I have a child there and 2 at larger, very good U's. I just returned from dropping my freshman off and was truly amazed by the way the college embraced the new students. It's hard to believe all those resources are for just over 4000 students.</p>
<p>Could you be more specific on the resources? I feel like NU is my first choice at the moment, but my parents would also like me to consider similar, closer to home schools.</p>
<p>You can't lose either way. Academically they are just about even. Well, not exactly... Dartmouth does have more prestige at the undergraduate level even though they're ranked about the same by USNWR. NU is more of a Big U with super smart kids like Stanford, while Dartmouth is more like an LAC.</p>
<p>Are Division I sports important to you? Would you feel claustrophobic spending four years at a school where you might end up recognizing most of the other students (no place to hide, no secrets). </p>
<p>I don't know if Dartmouth has followed the lead of the larger Ivies, but if they have, they're likely to have a much richer financial package for you if your parents make between $80,000 - $180,000 annual income.</p>
<p>My S visited Northwestern and didn't apply. His impression--note that I'm merely saying that this was his impression, not that it is totally accurate--was that it was not intellectual, instead it was dominated by Big 10 sports and frats and pre-professionalism. He strongly preferred the U of C and the Life of the Mind. </p>
<p>Come spring, his top choices among his acceptances were Dartmouth and the U of C. He chose Dartmouth, much to the surprise of many, after attending both admitted students events. He felt that students at D were both intelligent and intellectual but less socially awkward than at the U of C, and that D made it clear that they WANTED you, and CARED whether you came, whereas the U of C was comparatively cool in their welcome.</p>
<p>We have found D's FA to be very generous, and their welcome to both students and families to be very warm.</p>
<p>My personal opinion is that D is a better place for a classic liberal arts education, and that N is a better place if you are interested in training for one of the professions in which they excel, such as journalism.</p>
<p>Dartmouth is much more undergrad focused. Tightknit campus, more resources per student, smaller classes, no TAs, etc. Also, the dartmouth "spirit" is incredible - it wins on the intangibles- and this breeds lots of alumni loyalty (over 75% return for reunions). Socially its also very tighknit with a very inclusive social scene where everyone is invited to every party, amazing big weekends (homecoming and winter carnival are awesome), sophomore summer where you meet most of your classmates (camp dartmouth!), and fantastic study abroad. Its a very unique experience. To illustrate, most schools have you do study abroad through third party programs- basically you pretty much are on your own. Dartmouth has intensive language training and the whole program is led by a Dartmouth professor with only Dartmouth students. There is a huge budget for weekly trips and a week long learning "vacation" in the middle. Dartmouth not only has study abroad, it has international programs in almost every major. So Econ at LSE, Phil at Edinburgh, Environmental Studies in Africa, Anthro in New Zealand, etc. Small differences that make a huge difference in the long run. </p>
<p>Dartmouth also tends to do better with recruiting and job placement, in my opinion partially due to the incredibly undergrad loyalty and a sligthly stronger reputation. I know many love Northwestern, but I personally would be hard pressed to pass up Dartmouth. </p>
<p>I know banking is in a little trouble, lol, but I think this speaks to the "business rep" of Dartmouth vs. its peers.</p>
<p>Ivy</a> Leaguers' Big Edge: Starting Pay - WSJ.com</p>
<p>Deal</a> Journal - WSJ.com : Dartmouth: A Good Week for the Unsung Ivy of Financial Connections</p>
<p>Deal</a> Journal - WSJ.com : Dartmouth: A Good Week for the Unsung Ivy of Financial Connections</p>
<p>2007</a> list of BB Summer Associate class by colleges | WallStreetOasis.com</p>
<p>Private</a> Equity Firms & Universities: What’s the Relationship? | BankersBall</p>
<p>Very close on the numbers, but very different in terms of campus environment, look and feel. Maybe some of the following data will be of some help.</p>
<p>O B J E C T I V E D A T A </p>
<p><strong><em>STUDENT BODY</em></strong><br>
UNDERGRADUATE ENROLLMENT<br>
Dartmouth 4164 Northwestern 8284</p>
<p>NUMBER OF IS STUDENTS (% OF STUDENTS)<br>
Dartmouth 125 (3%) Northwestern 2701 (25%)</p>
<p>% OF FEMALE/MALE STUDENTS<br>
Dartmouth 50%/50% Northwestern 53%/47%</p>
<p>% OF WHITE, BLACK, ASIAN, HISPANIC, INTERNATIONAL STUDENTS<br>
Dartmouth 63%, 7%, 14%, 6%, 6% Northwestern 65%, 6%, 17%, 7%, 5%</p>
<p>% OF STUDENTS IN FRATERNITIES/SORORITIES<br>
Dartmouth 43%/40% Northwestern 32%/38%</p>
<p>% WHO PARTICIPATE IN STUDY ABROAD<br>
Dartmouth 55% Northwestern na</p>
<p>AVERAGE HIGH/LOW IN FEBRUARY<br>
Dartmouth 34-12 Northwestern 35-18</p>
<p><strong><em>RETENTION & GRADUATION RATES</em></strong><br>
FRESHMAN RETENTION RATE<br>
Dartmouth 98% Northwestern 97%
-% OF STUDENTS WHO GRADUATE IN 4 YEARS:<br>
Dartmouth 87% Northwestern 86%
-% OF STUDENTS EXPECTED TO GRADUATE IN 6 YEARS:<br>
Dartmouth 93% Northwestern 92%
-% OF STUDENTS WHO DO GRADUATE IN 6 YEARS:<br>
Dartmouth 93% Northwestern 93%</p>
<p><strong><em>FACULTY RESOURCES</em></strong><br>
-% OF CLASSES WITH <20 STUDENTS<br>
Dartmouth 64% Northwestern 75%
% OF CLASSES WITH 20-50 STUDENTS<br>
Dartmouth 27% Northwestern 17%
-% OF CLASSES WITH 50+ STUDENTS<br>
Dartmouth 9% Northwestern 7%
-FACULTY/STUDENT RATIO<br>
Dartmouth 8/1 Northwestern 7/1
% OF FULL-TIME FACULTY<br>
Dartmouth 93% Northwestern 96%</p>
<p><strong><em>STUDENT STRENGTH</em></strong><br>
-% ACCEPTANCE RATE<br>
Dartmouth 15% Northwestern 27%
-TOTAL SAT/ACT RANGE (Middle 50%)<br>
Dartmouth 1330-1550/29-34 Northwestern 1350/1520/30-34
SAT CRITICAL READING RANGE (Middle 50%)<br>
Dartmouth 660-770 Northwestern 670-750
% OF STUDENTS SCORING 700+ ON SAT CRITICAL READING<br>
Dartmouth 65% Northwestern 61%
SAT MATH RANGE (Middle 50%)<br>
Dartmouth 670-780 Northwestern 680-770
% OF STUDENTS SCORING 700+ ON SAT MATH<br>
Dartmouth 65% Northwestern 66%
% OF STUDENTS SCORING 30+ ON ACT<br>
Dartmouth 67% Northwestern 76%
-% OF STUDENTS RANKING IN TOP 10% IN HS CLASS<br>
Dartmouth 91% Northwestern 85%</p>
<h1>OF NMS FINALISTS IN 2007 (% of entering students)</h1>
<pre><code>Dartmouth 51 (4.9%) Northwestern 249 (12.0%)
</code></pre>
<p><strong><em>FINANCIAL</em></strong><br>
COST (Tuition & Fees) FOR OOS & IS<br>
Dartmouth $36,915 Northwestern $37,125
USNWR 2009 FINANCIAL RESOURCES RANK<br>
Dartmouth 11 Northwestern 13
ENDOWMENT SIZE (PER CAPITA undergrad and grad)<br>
Dartmouth $3.76 billion ($642,885) Northwestern $6.50 billion ($407,041)
% OF UNDERGRADUATES WHO WORK PART-TIME<br>
Dartmouth 40% Northwestern 38%
% OF STUDENTS WHO APPLY FOR FINANCIAL AID/RECEIVE FINANCIAL AID<br>
Dartmouth 62%/50% Northwestern 52%/43%
% OF FINANCIAL NEED MET & AVERAGE SIZE OF PACKAGE<br>
Dartmouth 100% ($35,374) Northwestern 100% ($28,058)
% OF STUDENTS WHO GRADUATE WITH DEBT & AVERAGE AMOUNT OF DEBT AT GRADUATION<br>
Dartmouth 52% ($19,556) Northwestern 46% ($18,393)
ALUMNI GIVING %<br>
Dartmouth 53% Northwestern 30%</p>
<p>S U B J E C T I V E D A T A </p>
<p>USNWR 2009 RANK<br>
Dartmouth 11 Northwestern 12</p>
<p>USNWR PEER ASSESSMENT SCORE<br>
Dartmouth 4.3 Northwestern 4.3</p>
<p>USNWR 2009 RANK EX-PA<br>
Dartmouth 11 Northwestern 12</p>
<p>RANKED BY USNWR FOR EXCELLENT CLASSROOM TEACHING<br>
Dartmouth Yes Northwestern Yes</p>
<p>Check out Slipper 1234 other posts before putting too much stock in his/her post. Clearly has a Dartmouth-centric view of things.</p>
<p>With the exception of selected majors (e.g. engineering, journalism, communications, music, education), the two schools will generally offer superimposably strong academic programs. </p>
<p>Northwestern is and feels bigger than Dartmouth. But if you look at the day to day live's of undergraduates, neither is any less or more "undergrad focused." Class sizes, access to professors, and research opportunities will be similar at the two. </p>
<p>Dartmouth IS a more intimate place. Especially arriving on campus freshman year this can feel less threatening and more supportive. The surrounding environs are beautiful but there are no real urban escapes nearby. Hanover is a small town that feels small. By the time third and four years come around will what was once small and charming have morphed into claustrophobia for you? </p>
<p>What Northwestern sacrifices in intimacy at the beginning of the college experience it makes up for in a wealth of urban opportunities. Chicago and myriad music, club, theater, museum, and internships offerings are there to be explored when even Northwestern and its campus feels small. Most importantly, the Cubs are just a short El ride away. Forget skiing.</p>
<p>These are two great schools.<br>
Think about where you feel YOU fit best and don't sweat the minutia.</p>
<p>
Yep, the "bulge bracket" isn't as big anymore. Just think, all those prestige IB job-seekers might have to work for a pedestrian commercial bank like Bank of America or Wachovia...oh the horror!</p>
<p>
[quote]
</p>
<p>AVERAGE HIGH/LOW IN FEBRUARY
Dartmouth 34-12 Northwestern 35-18</p>
<p>...</p>
<p>S U B J E C T I V E D A T A </p>
<p>USNWR 2009 RANK
Dartmouth 11 Northwestern 12</p>
<p>USNWR PEER ASSESSMENT SCORE
Dartmouth 4.3 Northwestern 4.3</p>
<p>USNWR 2009 RANK EX-PA
Dartmouth 11 Northwestern 12</p>
<p>RANKED BY USNWR FOR EXCELLENT CLASSROOM TEACHING
Dartmouth Yes Northwestern Yes
[/quote]
</p>
<p>:rolleyes:</p>
<p>
[quote]
My personal opinion is that D is a better place for a classic liberal arts education, and that N is a better place if you are interested in training for one of the professions in which they excel, such as journalism.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I don't think you know much about what Northwestern offers. Some of the liberal arts programs at Northwestern are ranked among the best in the nation. Northwestern is listed in the top-25 in just about all social sciences and humanities ranked by US News (the only exception is "criminology" which is not offered at Northwestern). Language depts aren't ranked by US News but fyi, Northwestern's German department leads with DAAD and Fulbright winners. All the sciences/math are ranked in the top-30 by US News. Chemistry is in the top-10; it has one of the national research centers for nanotechology. There are tons of opportunities for undergrad research. ISP (integrated science program) is one of the most rigorous and intellectually challenging science programs in the nation.</p>
<p>
[quote]
All the sciences/math are ranked in the top-30 by US News.
[/quote]
Is that good?</p>
<p>math:18th
bio: 29th
chem: 9th
phys: 26th</p>
<p>Just go to Dartmouth...prettier, quainter, higher-rated in most ways, more tightly knit students and alumni. Go to Northwestern for grad school.</p>
<p>
[quote]
higher-rated in most ways..
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Please provide supporting documentation/citations?</p>
<p>What strikes me most when I look at the object numbers is the difference in alumni giving. It doesn't surprise me. It is hard to articulate the quality Dartmouth has that draws you in and makes you love the place, but it's very much there. The students clearly love the school. My family felt it immediately on our first tour and it continues to deepen. We have 2 older kids and saw and felt dozens of schools but never felt this way about any other school except maybe Princeton.</p>
<p>
[quote]
My personal opinion is that D is a better place for a classic liberal arts education, and that N is a better place if you are interested in training for one of the professions in which they excel, such as journalism.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>True for journalism, but lets not forget that D has plenty of pre-professional students on campus. Like all colleges, including NU, each D Frosh class has a huge contingent of premeds (and other health professionals) and pre-law types. And, one of its largest majors is econ (pre-IB/consulting).</p>