Daugher confused/Parents clueless - Please help with college search

Parents Forum
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<p>What a wonderful profile...and a very realistic but loving and proud description by a parent! Everything you've described about her indicates liberal arts. While the strongest liberal arts schools may not offer the opportunity to study architecture or medical illustration...she can likely get an exposure to these fields through an internship...and it doesn't sound like these specific professional areas are her interest right now, anyway.</p>

<p>Your daughter's SAT, GPA and EC's qualify her to apply to any college -- even the most selective. She'll need to choose match and "safety" schools she loves -- but she should be encouraged to go for some reach schools. If she gets in, she may have to, initially, work a little harder to get to the level of the kids in schools districts with many AP's...but it sounds like she would welcome the opportunity to be around more intellectually stimulating classmates. Based on all of the information you've presented, I don't think any schools would be "ridiculously" hard for her -- except possibly the high level technical schools where many students enter already having taken college level math and science courses. (But this may be a moot point if her apparent liberal arts profile holds true.)</p>

<p>Depending on any specific location preferences based on US region (I didn't notice a preference for Northeast, Midwest. South etc.) you really should look on the websites of all of the "CC Top Liberal Arts Colleges" and the Ivy league to see if anywhere "stands out." With her PSAT score, you must be getting tons of literature from schools. Anything grab her eye?</p>

<p>Colgate, Hamilton, Middlebury, Bowdoin, Amherst -- all gorgeous North east schools with very good liberal arts in college towns. For matches, schools in college towns include Denison, Franklin and Marshall, possibly even 7 sister schools like Mount Holyoke and Bryn Mawr. </p>

<p>Hope she picks a couple of EA or rolling admissions schools. </p>

<p>Good luck. She sounds like a most deserving young woman.</p>

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<p>Emory has single sex floors and also has one single sex dorm for women. Ask the school guidance counselor to nominate her as an Emory Scholar. This will make her eligible for some large merit scholarships as well as various research opportunities.</p>

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<p>Midwestparent, I answered on the other forum but since I like the Parents' conversation better I will repeat here:</p>

<p>(Now that you've clarified your financial situation, I've edited that part.)</p>

<p>Your daughter is very accomplished and is within the reach of being accepted at any college in America. The challenge is going to be finding the ones that are right for her. I certainly know the “lost at sea” feeling of starting the college search. The good news is that the applicant has SO MUCH going for her that her problem is going to be eliminating choices not isolating them. </p>

<p>As always, there’s no guarantee and so that all of you get some sleep between December and April she needs to be sure to have a good balance of selectivity. Finding the “sure bet” schools (AKA safeties) is somewhat more difficult that identifying appropriate reaches but you must not underestimate the importance of loving her safeties.</p>

<p>From what you’ve told us about your daughter I would tend to think that she would like a small LAC versus a large university. Disclaimer: I am a graduate of a large university and my son attends a small LAC; his experience has been far superior to mine and I am thus unabashedly prejudiced.</p>

<p>There are dozens of excellent LACs and medium sized universities that would suit your daughter. If she could identify one or two that appeal, then it would be easier to suggest others that fall into the same general character, but at different levels of selectivity.</p>

<p>For example, if she likes Williams, then I’d suggest Dartmouth, Colgate, Amerst, Hamilton, Kenyon, Skidmore, Wellesley.
(I would characterize these as SLIGHTLY more conservative.)
If she likes Brown, then I’d suggest Swarthmore, Wesleyan, Middlebury, Grinnell, Smith
(I would characterize these as SLIGHTLY more liberal.)</p>

<p>Most of these schools are generous with need based aid. Some are also generous with merit aid; some offer NONE. That’s why it’s critical to understand your financial requirement before proceeding further.</p>

<p>There are so many others (including Harvard, Yale, Princeton, MIT, Stanford) that it’s more of a recitation of names than a focused search. You’ll find as you and your daughter begin making lists that schools fall into a kind of pattern of concentric circles. You’ll just keep narrowing in until you get to a refined list of 8 to 12 covering a range of selectivity.</p>

<p>My second disclaimer is that my son goes to Williams and it seems to offer everything in your daughter’s wishlist. (Except possibly single sex dorms. First years are grouped in mixed gender entries. They are same sex by room and bathroom, but are in close proximity to the other gender. Housing is guaranteed for four years. Almost all live on campus.)</p>

<p>Williams has excellent academics, including sciences, and excellent arts. The students tend to be multifaceted and many are involved in the arts and play a sport in addition to being serious about their intellectual accomplishments. The music department is very strong and there are many opportunities for non-majors to perform. The art department is also first rate, both in studio and art history. There are three world class museums on or near campus which bring an intensity to the art offerings that you wouldn't expect in a rural environment.</p>

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<p>West coast input, Pepperdine, lots of arts to dable in good science program and strong tennis program. Single sex dorms, conservative, alcohol free campus. Check out the website</p>

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<p>I don't know which schools to mention, but keep in mind that many campuses have substance-free housing options as well as single-sex housing options. This seems to lead to a more conservative group living in those particular floors or residence halls...might be something your daughter wants to look into.</p>

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<p>also on the west coast: Whitman and Occidental have generous merit aid.
Whitman is in Walla Walla in the heart of the wine districe that is developing. It is more rural and outdoorsy. Excellent academics. It is across town from Walla Walla College a Seventh-day Adventist LAC which has an engineering school. This makes for a nice small college town with a nice conservative-liberal balance.
Occidental on the other hand is in a less upscale suburb of Los Angeles. You'll recognize it when you see it because it is one of the most frequently used Hollywood locations. Watch the classic "Pat and Mike" with Tracy and Hepburn. The campus fountain was used on one of the Startrek movies.</p>

<p>My daughter is currently attending Barnard which is in Manhattan. I mention Barnard in spite of what you have stated, because we thought our daughter was headed for one of the colleges mentioned by prior posters on this thread. It turned out that she fell in love with Barnard. Her class sizes have ranged from two to 200. The campus feels like a suburban LAC but right outside the gate you're back in New York City. </p>

<p>In the South you might look at Davidson. Presbyterian school but very diverse on their admissions. Very strong Academics. Strong honor code. 1600 students, almost everyone plays a sport. Good merit aid. If she looks at it and likes it, have her GC nominate her for the Belk Scholarship. Ten given each year: full ride.</p>

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<p>Everyone here is listing schools in the Northeast corridor, but there are some FANTASTIC schools in your (our) neck of the woods that would seem to fit your daughter to a T (I'm also considering that she will probably want to continue with her music as a participant as well as her other varied interests and her housing desires) and who would LOVE to have her. With her varied interests, it seems that a LAC would suit her far better than a uni even with an Honors Program. With her statistics, merit money could also be a possibility at many of these schools. She should take a look at Grinnell, Oberlin, Carleton, Kalamazoo College, and Kenyon College. A bit less selective, but also excellent are Macalester, Lawrence, St. Olaf's, and College of Wooster. </p>

<p>For the student/parent who is either a) very early in the college selection process or b) wants to open their mind to all possibilies, I'm going to recommend exploring two other resources open to all. When my D was starting the process, we found that using these two resources worked in a complementary way. First, go to the PR website and do the Counselor-O-Matic tool. Input the child's statistics, wishes for size, location (both geography and urban vs. suburban vs. small town), potential majors (if any), potential extracurricular interests, desire for Greek vs. non-Greek presence, etc. The progam then generates a list of schools that kinda match these interests and a VERY rough estimate as to whether they would be reach, match, or safety schools (these estimates may be way inaccurate, so take them with a grain of salt). It may open your child's mind to schools he/she might not have otherwise considered. Then, purchase the USNWR on-line Premium Edition for best colleges. IGNORE the rankings. But search individual colleges to get more info about statistics of admitted students, whether or not they offer merit aid if that is important, selectivity, etc. Once schools make the "short list" of your child, you can try to search for the Common Data Set for each school on-line to get more detailed statistics about the school, average financial and merit aid, whether or not they track student interest, etc. Search the college's indvidual websites. For more in-depth research especially about financial priorities of the school which might affect either admissions or merit aid decisions, search for the college's strategic plans, take a look at the on-line school newspaper looking for info about new programs, buildings, or endowments in the area of your child's interest, and consider searching for speeches by the college president or deans about admissions and institutional priorities.</p>

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<p>You stated that your D had an isolated experience in HS. Plus it sounds like you live in a small, isolated community. It is not too surprising that your D has concerns about the college community and dormitory living. It is not too late to make arrangements for your D to attend a college summer session and live in a dorm. This can be a very valuable experience. It should help your D develop some clear ideas about future college choices and will also help with the adjustment when she does go away to college.</p>

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<p>Quiltguru:</p>

<p>See my post #2!</p>

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<p>I second quiltguru's suggestion about using Counselor-o-Matic or some of the other search engines. But I also second her suggestion to take the safety/match/reach results with a huge grain of salt. Counselor-o-Matic, in particular is bizarre. So I would use the programs to get a manageable list of schools to investigate further, but frankly I would ignore the saftey/match/reach distinctions -- you can make far better judgements about this after you investigate the schools some more.</p>

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<p>Midwest Parent
If you and your D are willing to consider the South, take a look at the Honor's College at University of South Carolina. She would be a perfect fit for their offerings,especially the out of state scholarship program they call the McNair scholars (caveat:S will be one of these in Fall 06).Unbelievable financial rewards for top grades/NM,including $$ for study abroad,free laptops,etc. It's a fairly self contained program with its own housing housing on a large campus, but all female housing is also available on campus if D desires.They also have restricted visiting in freshman dorms.Its in a city (small by our standards but prob large by yours) but its partially isolated (older historic part of the campus)."college town" type options...shopping,restaurants,etc are walkable. Interesting science options including a School of Public Health. They love students with public service/community service backgrounds like your daughters.Amazing southern hospitality and individual attention for such a large institution.</p>

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<p>cathymee - Does McNair's $15,000 per year provide a full ride?</p>

<p><a href="http://www.sc.edu/financialaid/academic.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.sc.edu/financialaid/academic.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>
[quote]
Annual Value: $15,000 ($11,000 finalists)* </p>

<p>Four-Year Value: $60,000 ($44,000 finalists)*</p>

<p>Forty out-of-state students with strong academic records who have been involved in high school and community leadership will be selected as McNair Scholar Finalists. Of these finalists, 20 students will be selected for the McNair Scholars Award. Typical candidates have excellent grades on a strong high-school curriculum and present average SAT scores over 1300 on critical reading and math sections combined (or ACT composite score of 29). McNair Scholars Finalists receive awards of $44,000 ($11,000 per year), and McNair Scholars receive awards of $60,000 ($15,000 per year)*. These awards are renewable for up to three years as long as you maintain at least a “B” average. To apply for this scholarship, both an application for general University admissions and a University Honors College and Scholarship Application must be received by the Office of Undergraduate Admissions. The postmark deadline for the applications is December 1. All nonresidents students receiving this scholarship receive a reduced tuition benefit as well.</p>

<p>*effective fall 2006

[/quote]
</p>

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<p>I would add Rice to your list. The only place it fails your criteria is 4 year housing, but that can be worked by being a house officer. I think the residential college system more than makes up for it, providing a cozy, smaller community within a great science college with strong arts available. They also have a strong merit system.</p>

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<p>Some more clarifications:</p>

<p>D doesn't necessarily want an entire single sex dorm, but one where a floor or even a wing of a floor is single sex. She is just a conservative/modest sort of girl.
We have mentioned womens' colleges to her but she doesn't seem interested.
We are starting to see some repeats in the colleges recommended - that is a good sign and we will definitely check them out.
Any more wisdom would be greatly appreciated - and thank you again - this helps so much more than you'll ever know. When I showed her the post and the schools people thought she even had a chance to attend, I can tell you she was flattered. I saw a wonderful smile appear on her usually serious face. When you attend high school in the type of environment she is in, NO ONE mentions anything beside State U and U of State - mainly because that's all they know.</p>

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<p>MidwestParent -</p>

<p>My evolution through the college admissions process:</p>

<p>Stage 1: "Son, you should look at Rice, Carnegie-Mellon, and Penn!"</p>

<p>Stage 2: "Wow, there's a lot of choices out there!!! How do we look at them all. There's SO MUCH STUFF WE DON'T KNOW!!!!!"</p>

<p>Stage 3: "Let's find something we can afford!!!"</p>

<p>Stage 4: "Road trip: Let's look at all kinds of schools just to see what kind of environment our son would like to be in (small, large, state, private, etc.)."</p>

<p>Stage 5: Dad: "I need to make a spreadsheet to collect info: size, costs, SAT range, etc.."</p>

<p>Stage 6: Son: "I've decided that I want to go to film school!"
Dad: "Eeek: USC costs a LOT of money!!! Research film schools!"</p>

<p>Stage 7: "Now that the list is narrowed down, lets do some visits."</p>

<p>Stage 8: Son steps onto the ONE campus on which he immediately feels at home. Dad has GIGANTIC grin that search seems to be over and the cost is reasonable.</p>

<p>Stage 9: Application time: New anxiety: Getting into the honors program at that school is very competitive and requires more essays, portfolio, more visits, interviews, ...</p>

<p>Stage 9: Acceptance letter into Honors College!! Dad jumps up and down and slaps son on the back so many times that son starts to complain.</p>

<p>Stage 10: Dad become a CC geezer with "been there, done that" attitude.</p>

<p>((ps: thanks to berurah for letting me borrow a few of her exclamation marks))</p>

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<p>MidWest parent,</p>

<p>It's usually a tough crowd here in terms of making sure people apply across a good range of selectivity. But there is something in your daughter's profile that does stand out and I think is making people suggest that 1-2 super-reaches is not a bad idea. The 800 on CR, the artistic recognition at fairly high level, the tennis proficiency. All of that seems to indicate a kid with really high potential - especially coming out of what you indicate is a mediocre high school.</p>

<p>You might want to look at the profile for Curmudgeon's daughter, also some killer scores, #1 in school, state level achievement in basketball, played the tuba in a band, and raised goats....She will attend Rhodes in the fall with a large amount of merit $$$ and was also accepted at Yale and Amherst.</p>

<p>Does your daughter have any livestock experience:)?</p>

<p>And of course, finding match/safeties you love is critical even for the top students in the top high schools just to factor in fortune or lack thereof as the tale of Andison reminds us.</p>

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<p>dig, but where's the colors and font sizes??</p>

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<p>El Derochi -</p>

<p>The exclamation marks are cheap. Rental on colors and font sizes are expensive!</p>

<p>Alumother -</p>

<p>I was thinking the same. With the stats and ECs and achievements listed by the OP, I don't think there's any limit to where her daughter could apply (knowing that the very top schools might not come through). Because she is so talented and smart and it looks like this is the person any college would want, it makes the process even harder trying to narrow down choices.</p>

<p>One of the things I would recommend is the "Road Trip" Stage above: look at a variety of schools (even around the midwest, including Grinnell and Carleton) and see what clicks with the daughter.</p>

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<p>Midwest parent--As soon as I read your daughter's profile, I thought of Rice as a possibility. I think that it has everything that she is looking for (other than 4-yr. housing). Another reach school I would consider is Princeton--4 yr. housing, strong sciences, certificate in visual arts, decent music opportunities and I believe that single-sex housing is available.</p>

<p>As to reach/matches or matches, there are many. I would definitely look at Wash U.--it has a reputation for having a lot of very nice kids and it gives NM scholarships and many other merit scholarships. Although your daughter says she isn't interested in single-sex schools, Wellesley would definitely meet many of her criteria and I might take a look at Scripps (although its an all-female school, it is located literally next door to the four other schools in the Claremont consortium). Other LACs to consider would be Amherst, Carleton, Grinnell. As to safeties, there are so many its difficult to pick (you might consider University of Richmond, Hobart and William Smith and Lawrence). </p>

<p>I think that, if possible, you should visit some schools as soon as possible (even if it's in the summer, when no kids are on campus), just to see what she thinks. For example, if you visit Williams or Colgate, she might decide that the locations are just too remote. </p>

<p>Good luck--your daughter sounds very special.</p>

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<p>Smith College (Northampton, Mass.) meets all of your D's criteria except that it is single-sex (though part of a five college consortium that includes three co-ed schools). Virtually every Smithie I know will at some point say something like "I never <em>meant</em> to atttend a womens college but...."</p>

<p>As a testimonial, last week my daughter said, "I've had two absolutely wonderful years there."</p>