<p>My daughter, who is a senior, has always been a good student and did well on her SATs. So we thought everything was fine re college.Well, it turns out she switched out of AP Calculus the first month of school without telling us!
Now she's taking no math her senior year (the school only offers AP Calc, or nothing). She said she was getting Ds, her teacher told her she shouldn't be in the course, so she switched to another course.. She didn't tell us becasue she thought we'd get mad.
So, here she is applying to colleges with no senior math (she took precalc last year - it was her worst subject - she got a B and shouldn't have been in APCalc except it was the only math course).
We don't know what to do and the school is no help. Should we try and insist they give her an independent study in another math course, like statistics or regular calculus?
All the colleges she was looking at say they reccommend 4 years of math. How can she explain no math senior year? She switched to another course so early that dropping Calc is not on her transcript. We are at a loss and don't know if she will have to take an extra year of high school to go to a decent college after this mess (maybe PG at a prep school?) if the school won't help her.</p>
<p>What type of schools is she applying to? Is she focused on any particular major? Out of context of that information, it's harder to comment.</p>
<p>She should be fine if the rest of her transcript is strong. My D lost her whole senior year to mono and she's a first year at Harvard this year.</p>
<p>No need to panic. Colleges recommend, they do not require. Presumably, she is not headed for a career in math and science, so she should be fine. She should not even try to explain away her lack of a fourth year of math. And it is a good thing that the dropped course does not appear on her transcript!</p>
<p>I think you should do some indepant study of something lower because I'm in the same position, except I didn't drop it and now I'm stuck with a class I don't really understand (at my school I have 2 options- drop it and fail and have no math class or stick it out). I WISH I had dropped it and had set up an IS in stats. Don't see this as a negative, but as an obstacle. There IS a good solution to this problem, even if you have to dig to find it.</p>
<p>I wouldn't worry. Some colleges require math through pre-calculus, and she's done that.</p>
<p>I think math through pre-calc is fine. It is just a slight negative. S is not taking science this year, but he went through physics last year (just regular-not honors or AP). I wouldn't worry about it. Plenty of kids at D's school (Rice) did not take calculus in high school, believe it or not.</p>
<p>Catherine,
What course did she switch into? As long as it's a rigorous course, she should be fine, assuming she isn't a potential math/science major.</p>
<p>In our school system, a student who completes pre-calc is considered to have done 4 years of high school-level math; calculus is considered college-level math. The kids who do AP Calc A/B as seniors do 1st-year high school math in 8th grade. Maybe this is just a NY thing - but it's possible your d's colleges will see her as having completed 4 years of math.</p>
<p>She has had 4 years (unless your math system is different from the rest of the country!) She should have had Algebra 1, Geometry, Algebra 2, Pre-cal. That's 4 years. Relax. She's okay!</p>
<p>I agree--this is not a disaster. </p>
<p>Entirely too many students dutifully slog through senior year calculus (hating it all the way, taking it like some sort of bitter medicine.)</p>
<p>Prof. Ed Burger, a very distinguished math professor at Williams College (he's won national prizes from professional societies both for his research and for his teaching), has said that one of the biggest problems of K-12 math is its misguided notion that calculus is the be-all, end-all capstone experience that should culminate everyone's K-12 math career.</p>
<p>There is a lot of worthwhile math that would be far more useful and engaging for students like your daughter. It's a shame that your daughter's high school doesn't offer good solid alternatives--but then again few high schools do. </p>
<p>This rushing through to calculus is truly unfortunate. Even a number of students who get A's in AP calculus (and some who get 5's on the AP exam) don't really have a solid understanding of what they are doing. They may be able to manipulate mindlessly but correctly, but they have a very poor conceptual understanding of what they are doing. Such students frequently are surprised when they flounder on the placement tests in college. </p>
<p>(A former grad student at MIT who used grade the placement tests of newly admitted incoming freshman at MIT remarked that a number of them didn't even have a good understanding of PREcalculus, possibly because they'd rushed through to cram calculus in so fast. <a href="http://www.artofproblemsolving.com/Forum/topic-59697.html%5B/url%5D">http://www.artofproblemsolving.com/Forum/topic-59697.html</a> If that's true of MIT students, how much more true is it of students who are not inherently mathematically inclined!)</p>
<p>College admissions officers are doing students a real disservice by telling all students that they should take AP calculus if it's offered. (The irony is that many of these college admissions directors have NOT themselves taken calculus, since it was less universal in high schools a few decades ago, and since most admissions deans do not have especially strong math backgrounds.)</p>
<p>AP calculus has ruined entirely too many senior years for students who had no earthly reason to be taking calculus! I commend your daughter for the courage to set a different path for herself--if she sees a need for calculus down the road, it will always be there for her! (And the advantage of waiting until college--or even later--to take calculus is that she'll have a choice of instructors, rather than being stuck with the luck of the draw in high school.)</p>
<p>So--courage! to your daughter and to you. Relax--far better that she should have a truly great senior year, pursuing courses that truly interest and engage her.</p>
<p>My D (now a senior) was in pre-calc honors last year. She struggled and did not enjoy it. H and I discussed it and I checked requirements an serveral "selective" universities and LACs -- the recommendation is to complete pre-calc at most of the schools. D is not interested in engineering or math. We told her she did not have to take AP Calculus this year. She was thrilled. </p>
<p>As others have noted, completion of pre-calc is considered 4 years of math. I would not worry about this. I think your D will be in fine shape with her good academic record and better than she would be with a relatively low grade in a course she did not enjoy at all.</p>
<p>I think that letting the matter slide is the best option. I also don't like the idea of inflicting a stats IS on a kid who doesn't eat live and breathe math/science. Finishing up applications is enough of a drain. The only school I am aware of that actually requires calculus is Harvey Mudd, and it doesn't sound like your D is headed in that direction.</p>
<p>Just to add my two cents to the chorus of "this is not a problem." S (now a freshman at Harvard) decided last year not to take calculus - he wasn't interested, he wasn't going to be a math/science major in college, and there were too many other subjects that he really wanted to take.</p>
<p>my experience: i only had 3 years of math, not even pre-calc, and i was a competitive applicant for most of the top schools (though not the "top 10"). i took physics instead as a senior, and a lot of colleges considered that to be math-like enough.
if she has an otherwise solid transcript, she'll be fine.</p>
<p>wisteria: I think that happens with all APs, not just calc. </p>
<p>I took AP calc because I like math and was headed for engineering school. I took AP spanish because otherwise I would have had to drop spanish.</p>
<p>Wisteria -
I wasn't aware of the research you cited, but it confirms a nagging discomfort of mine concerning AP Calculus. Did you know that a 5 on the AP Calc BC exam can be achieved by a score of under 70%? (A direct quote from son's AP teacher, who is a grader of the exam.) That is one highly unreliable standard - imagine the poor kid who gets a 3 on the test (that's what, 50%?) and tries to continue in higher math. He or she has been accelerated into a no-win situation.</p>
<p>A lot of schools are racing to the AP finish line and not giving their students a thorough preparation. You can see the results in 1) the number of colleges which no longer give credit for 3's and 4's on some APs, 2) the schools which give their own placement tests despite AP scores, and 3) the schools that have most students retake calculus freshman year, sometimes with the option of a faster pace. There is no doubt that these strategies are necessary, and that AP Calc scores can be an illusion.</p>
<p>midwesterner: That's not just calc. In 2001 a 5 on AP US History required a a raw score of 63% (<a href="http://www.collegeboard.com/student/testing/ap/exgrd_set.html)%5B/url%5D">http://www.collegeboard.com/student/testing/ap/exgrd_set.html)</a>.</p>