Daughter Hates Her Matches And Safeties

Parents Forum
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<p>Roshke, yes she did tour Maryland and did like it. She liked it more than I did, actually.</p>

<p>Geezermom:</p>

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I have said a similar silent thank-you that my freshman son and his friends did not actively compare college lists, in some cases until they began to hear from schools. They were respectful of each other's individual interests, not overly swayed by prestige, and driven by what they wanted, not what they thought they should want. It's hard for kids (parents, too) to stay out of the one-upmanship of the admissions process and avoid being influenced, distracted, or hurt by others' opinions. Some HS counselors actually recommend that students keep their lists to themselves. That's good advice.

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<p>You know, that is an interesting point.</p>

<p>D's friends have talked about colleges a lot. At first, D seemed not to like these conversations, as they made her feel stressed and inadequate.</p>

<p>Lately, though, I've noticed that she does seem to know which school is the favorite of all of her friends, and she knows who is applying ED. The surprising thing is that there is next to no overlap between her list and theirs.</p>

<p>Of her closest friends, we have favorite schools of Tufts ED, Univ of Wisconsin, Vanderbilt ED, a Wake Forest ED, a fashion institute, and Lehigh. It sounds like she is listening to what these friends have to say in evaluating these schools but somehow isn't signing on to those same schools. Indeed, she seems to be actively resisting one in particular (Tufts) that she liked when she visited. Weird, huh? </p>

<p>Maybe the thinking there is that if she doesn't apply where others are applying, there won't be that awkward moment when they find out one friend was admitted and one was not?</p>

<p>Now. Contrast this to what is going on with the parents. I swear, I cannot swing a dead cat without hitting somebody who asks me to tell them the list of schools that interest D. I tell them I am sworn to secrecy, and this seems to get me off the hook. Still, these friends will volunteer what their kids are considering. For the D of a running buddy, I know that she is applying ED to Haverford and is the only one at her prestigious private school doing so, including test scores and ECs.</p>

<p>It's DC. People are insane. What can you do?</p>

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<p>Cindy,
Definitely keep things low key. DC is a real pressure cooker in regards to this stuff. We were asked CONSTANTLY last year. People assumed several schools would be on his list; some were, some weren't. S handled questions by giving the names of the least-well-known schools (at least to people in this area) on his list. We would make a joke by saying, "Well, every school on his list starts with a C or M, but other than that..." </p>

<p>S1 and his friends did not talk about colleges much at all from October til the end of March. Most of them did not apply ED, and virtually all were applying to UMCP and seeing how the $$$ stacked up. The "competition" was among the parents, and that included pressuring kids to apply to certain schools whether or not they wanted to attend. S1 heard from many friends that they thought I was a "cool mom for letting [him] choose his own college." DUH!!!!!</p>

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<p>There seems to be a bit if a gender difference. Like countingdown, my s's didnt much with their friends about college. If I asked where so-and-so was applying, they frequently didn't know or didn't care. For the parents however, as we all were living the same stress of senior year and college applications, it was a constant topic of conversation, as it was a shared experience. For some it was bragging, for most it was genuine interest/support/concern, sharing of info and general conversation. It doesn't seem to be regional, it seems to be correlated with the timing of the shared life event (being a parent of a senior). Especially with boys, we didnt talk about shopping for prom dresses and such. We (parents of boys and girls) talked about our kids sports teams and such, but undoubtedly the conversation came quickly to the shared stress of the college app. process. The comisserating, being as we called it, members of the BMW club (that's the b-i-t-c-h, moan and whine club) was an opportunity to vent and or share and support--- Just as we do here on the cc parents forum. This thread has become a microcosm of that.</p>

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<p>"I swear, I cannot swing a dead cat without hitting somebody who asks me to tell them the list of schools that interest D. I tell them I am sworn to secrecy, and this seems to get me off the hook. Still, these friends will volunteer what their kids are considering. For the D of a running buddy, I know that she is applying ED to Haverford and is the only one at her prestigious private school doing so, including test scores and ECs."</p>

<p>I think when people are bound and determined to tell you these kinds of things, smile pleasantly and say "uh-huh" and let it just go in one ear and out the other. Seriously. It's not going to help you any in your dealings with dd, and you don't want to be conveying to her that other people's opinions and choices are relevant to her own decision (because it does sound as though she is somewhat motivated by the "name" or prestige or popularity of a school).</p>

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<p>jym, some of this IS regional, in my view. Talking about colleges just did not happen much at all where we live among kids at school or even parents. And most were not even trying for the same schools as my kids. There is not nearlly as competitive of an atmosphere here. What I read about on CC is quite foreign from the experiences we had here locally. When I found CC, for example, when older D was entering junior year of HS, I was all eyes at the emphasis on prestige and on rankings. My kids never even saw or heard of the rankings. I hadn't either. Ha, ha, can you believe it? I recall showing D1 some posts by students on CC and she could not relate to the "what are my chances" threads and the talk of rankings and "which Ivy is the best" or college lists that had like all 8 Ivies on them. And I realize that this goes on in certain kinds of high schools and certain kinds of communities and the more and more I read here (and still do), I thank my lucky stars that my kids didn't grow up in that atmosphere. A lot of families on CC would never choose to live where we live or send their kids to the K-12 schools our kids went to, but the more I hear of some other schools, I think my kids in some ways were better off in the long run. By the way, as you know, I have girls. I sympathize with the OP, I really do, but I cannot relate.</p>

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<p>Sooze-
I think perhaps what you are describing are moreso urban/rural differences rather than regional differences. When I lived in the NE (as you do) there was a strong focus on the top schools, the Ivies, teh NE schols and the Calif schools--- and I am talking 40 years ago, when I was in HS. But I was in an urban area in the NE. I am now in the SE, but still in an urban area. There is still a focus on top schools, though admittedly a different cluster of schools (many choose to stay in their "region" -- we send less to the NE and to CA-- many choose to stay within 500 mi of home). Perhaps the internet and forums such as CC, along with publications like the USN annual report, Newsweeks annual report, and all the Peterson publications, have disseminated information to more folks. That said, I still think we are talking about differences in competitiveness in urban vs rural locations moreso than regional (NE, SE, SW, Midwest, etc) geographical areas.</p>

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<p>Oops, I should not have used the word "regional" as I see what you mean. I really meant it differs depending on the community where one lives. So, in my neck of the woods, this kind of talk just is not too common. It was much nicer. :) And I always had CC for those who like to talk about this stuff, LOL.</p>

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<p>I think part of it is local community, too, though. I'm in the Chicago metropolitan area, in a "nice" suburb, but the people here have a mindset that is much more about U of I and the directional state schools, or going to the local comm college for 2 years and then transferring elsewhere, and if you asked them about fancy-schmancy top schools, they'd probably say Northwestern because they've heard of it, but they don't particularly think about the Ivy League or other top schools on a regular basis.</p>

<p>However, 5 miles away from me, there is a school district where they do, and it's much more pressure-filled and much more of a topic for parental discussion.</p>

<p>A kid we knew was a Penn legacy, and wound up getting into Penn off the waitlist -- we congratulated him, and the father said that around our neck of the woods, a lot of people thought it was Penn State. Ah well. The people that this kid's going to hang with know the difference, so whatever! The people in my town tend to have achieved economic success from fields that didn't require fancy-schmancy educations (for example, starting a restaurant that turned into a local chain, or real estate, or owning car dealerships -- you can make lots of money and live quite a nice upper middle class lifestyle doing those things, but it's a different path from the go-to-an-Ivy-and-make-business-connections path). And frankly if you've made money on those paths, and your kids can go into those businesses, you really may not see a need to investigate Fancy Schools in New England, kwim?</p>

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<p>I agree that the competition and comparing is regional, and probably varies from one school to another. Relatives attended a nationally known suburban HS in the Midwest (maybe they know pizzagirl!), and they did not experience the behavior that's prevalent in other regions. I should also add that my S (the one I referred to above who didn't talk about colleges with friends) had very specific goals and interests, and he applied only to schools that matched what he wanted. He ended up at a state university that many consider the best in his field, but it wouldn't be on the top of anyone's prestige list otherwise. He doesn't care. There are risks to this highly focused approach, but so far he's still dedicated.</p>

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<p>^ geezermom: just checking in; glad to see he's happy...other than the foot of snow predicted for my D this weekend, we are doing well for the most part too......</p>

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<p><strong>HA!</strong></p>

<p>I have been straightening the house, so I went up to D's room to drop off a book.</p>

<p>On the floor was her copy of "366 Colleges" or whatever it is called. Guess what page it was opened to?</p>

<p>University of Richmond.</p>

<p>Heh, heh . . . .</p>

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<p>LOL - at least you know she was listening.</p>

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<p>cindy: What a great moment! I remember last year being so frustrated at times, and then something would always happen that made me just want to hug him and not let go. It's a tough process for them, and they are, after all, teenagers. So much going on in their brains and their lives.</p>

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<p>Progress! When I found schools I thought might interest the kids, I would go on their websites and request a viewbook. Sometimes kids are more receptive to the info when they have something tangible to look at, like a brochure.</p>

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<p>^^I did the same with S1, a couple of years ago^^</p>

<p>Often he'd wonder how a particular college knew he was interested in aerospace engineering... ;)</p>

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<p>Cindy, YES!!! We have that book, too -- got it when S1 was a freshman and it sat around the house. From time to time, both guys would look at it. I borrowed a couple of others from the library, but most of the legwork was done online.</p>

<p>I never requested viewbooks, but I would pass on names of schools that were particularly strong in what S wanted...usually after picking up ideas here and vetting a bit before mentioning them.</p>

<p>S1 fell in love with Harvey Mudd during soph year. The mission after that was to find correlates based on what Mudd offered and S wanted. That was how we found Chicago, Reed and a couple of others. Not all were hits with S, but he gave them fair consideration. A couple of teachers who knew S's strengths made suggestions, too (Olin. Mudd, Chicago). </p>

<p>S2 is finding that several of his teachers went to one of his current favorites and has been talking to them about the school.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
Roshke, yes she did tour Maryland and did like it. She liked it more than I did, actually.

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<p>I know what you mean. I think that a lot of parents don't like UMCP. College Park is a dump, part of a larger dump called Prince George's County. But to a lot of the students, this doesn't seem to matter except that they quickly learn to never, ever, leave valuable personal possessions unattended for even a minute (yes, you take your laptop into the toilet stall with you).</p>

<p>But if your daughter actually went there, she might be pleasantly surprised. </p>

<p>My son graduated from UMCP last May. He had a really good four years there, even though he was not in the University Honors program (just in the much less selective College Park Scholars). He got a surprising amount of personal attention from professors, including an extraordinary amount of one-on-one advising when he was doing an honors project in his major as a senior. He had the opportunity to participate in a research project on campus one summer and get paid for it, and he got to be a TA for a course during a three-week winter session. He also got summer internships twice as part of a program in which UMCP participates. And he was not an outstanding student. He was merely a little bit above average. I suspect things are even better for the cream of the crop.</p>

<p>Despite the university's enormous size, my son found the bureaucracy surprisingly easy to deal with. In the fall semester of his sophomore year, he got sick with a rather violent stomach virus during final exams. He needed to reschedule two exams, and the professors and TAs were very cooperative about it, even though he had to reschedule at the last minute for the first exam (that's what happens when you wake up sick). We never had any problems with housing or the bursar's office, and he even got fairly decent service from the Campus Health Center. He was only closed out of courses a couple of times, and they were not required courses in his major. (His major department had a policy of NEVER closing out students in the major from required courses, no matter what; I do not know whether this is a university-wide policy, though.) In fact, he had an easier tiime getting the courses he wanted than his sister at a smaller private university does simply because UMCP is so large that a lot of courses have multiple sections meeting at different times, meaning that there is less chance of a time conflict than there is at a smaller school where there is only one section of a course. Also, because the university is so big, a surprising number of courses were taught in both semesters, which helped with schedule planning.</p>

<p>Really, the only bad experience my son had at Maryland was having bicycles stolen three times. (As I said above, there really is a theft issue.) I was pleasantly surprised with the rest of his experience there. I had not expected it to be as good as it was.</p>

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<p>A quick update.</p>

<p>D thought it over, and she decided to add one more college to her list. She has to put in her request for transcripts by today for Jan. 1 deadlines, so this is probably the last college to make it onto the list. </p>

<p>OK, are you ready?</p>

<p>The college is Wesleyan. :slaps forehead:</p>

<p>Why? Well, we did visit and she liked it. And apparently the supplement is easy.</p>

<p>Yeah, I know. It's another reach. I totally failed in my effort to get her to expand the bottom of the list and add a match or a safety. I guess there's nothing to do but wait and see what happens.</p>

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<p>Oy vey....keep us posted and good luck!!</p>

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<p>And did you see in the other thread that ED applications are up 40% this year at Weslayan? Yikes!</p>