Daughter thinking of dropping out

Parents Forum
1

My daughter is a junior at a very expensive art school. She should be a senior but she has had to drop classes in the past in order to avoid a grade that would affect her scholarship. She has a good scholarship but it is still VERY expensive to go there. She already has a ridiculous amount of student loan debt (about $96,000 at this point). The first couple years she was there we had to completely fund with student loans because I only had a part time job and we had another child in college also. Last year and this year, I have paid for all her living expenses and just had her take student loans for the tuition her scholarship doesn’t cover. Like I said, it’s still A LOT. We tried to talk her out of this school when she wanted to go out of high school but she insisted it was her dream school. We tried to explain what the debt would be like but she was 18 and wouldn’t listen and I guess just couldn’t imagine the reality of what we were saying. Now she regrets it.

She suffers from depression and anxiety, sees a therapist, and is on antidepressants. She came home this past week in order to vote. While she was home, she told us that she would like to drop out. She says she is depressed and stressed all the time and that she does not really enjoy what she is doing (she is in film). She doesn’t get to make her own art (she is more into drawing and collage work) and now with all the Covid restrictions the experiences she should be getting out of her classes is even more limited. I am really perplexed at what to feel good about telling her.

If I advise her to stay in school, I’m afraid it will not be good for her mentally. She struggles to do well and I don’t think she enjoys her classes. I know that she is not getting what she wanted to get out of this school. Some of that is due to the current state of things. Art school is just not something easy to do online. And, again, this school is very expensive. So, I hate to keep having her compile more and more debt if she is not going to want to do anything with it in the end. In order to finish her degree she will probably need at least another $30,000 in loans. And, it will take her 4 quarters after the current one (this school does quarters not semesters) IF she can get all the classes she needs in that time. Students can have trouble finishing at this school because the classes fill/aren’t available when needed. I have a friend whose child also goes there and is having this exact problem. So, we aren’t sure how long it may actually take for her to finish if she stays.

However, at the same time, because she is already so far into that debt, it’s also hard to feel good about her quitting. And, there’s also the fact that we don’t know what she will do if she does quit. She says she just wants to get a job, work, and make some money. Thing is, good paying jobs aren’t that easy to come by when you have neither a degree or work experience. She has had a few part time jobs but nothing much that will help her find a full time job somewhere. And, it’s complicated by the fact that she can’t move home (and save money on living costs) because she decided to go out and get herself a cat about a year ago for emotional support and I am extremely allergic to cats. So, when she moves back, she is going to have to have a place to move to. She will immediately have bills but not necessarily a real job. I cannot afford to pay both her living costs AND her loans once they go into repayment. My husband cosigned on the loans so we are bound to pay them if she can’t. And, on top of all this, if she drops out, I’m not sure how long she will be able to stay on our health insurance which she needs for the mental health issues.

I just really don’t know how to advise her. I don’t want her to be miserable and depressed. Life is too short. I also don’t want her to quit and regret it. I hate that she has all this student loan debt and technically nothing to show for it. She had talked of trying to transfer to somewhere less expensive in order to finish out some sort of degree but this school’s classes don’t transfer well. I think they do that on purpose so that you are stuck there paying their ridiculously high tuition because classes you already paid for won’t transfer elsewhere. I’m worried about her being able to find a job to support herself and have health insurance without a degree or any real experience. She is a good artist but that won’t necessarily pay her bills without any sort of degree. I am stressed and she is stressed.

I don’t even know why I’m writing here exactly. I guess just for perspectives and to vent it out and to see if there’s anything we aren’t considering.

2

It looks like this school is too expensive, due to the very large amount of debt that she and you (as the co-signer) are accumulating. Seems like it is financially a bad idea for both you and her to continue, in addition to the other reasons she wants to leave. However, if she does leave, make sure that she formally withdraws, without her current classes turning into F grades (may require completing the current term) and without any unpaid debts to the school.

Why wouldn’t this school’s classes transfer well (e.g. to a low cost in-state public that offers an art major)? Is this school not regionally accredited?

3

Hi, I’m so sorry to hear of her struggles. I can’t offer any input related to the loans, but I did want to say that there are a few in my family (including me and my oldest) who took different paths to make it through college. And it seems to me that dropping out, or perhaps taking a break, may be what she needs to improve her mental health.

In the case of my oldest, he left school for a while and worked, and when he decided to go back he was a different student–laser focused and got all As for the first time ever. Now in grad school doing the same.

I also followed a similar path a long time ago.

It’s really too bad that she has a cat and can’t move back home. That makes it harder of course.

I wish you both the best working through these options!

4

I also would wonder how much longer she would have to stay in school if she transferred to an in-state public school for art. She could always put “Undergraduate studies in art at Expensive Fancy School” 2017-2020 on her resume. Also it seems like perhaps she would want a semester off.

5

I’m sorry for your situation - I feel for ya, as my kid also has been extremely stressed this year b/c of covid. She’s considering deferring a year if the situation is the same by the end of next summer. She also has a scholarship she can’t afford to lose, and she’s in a major that requires in-person work (theater tech) to be of any value at all, really.

We are pushing her like crazy not to take that option - once you leave, you find it hard to go back. We have firsthand knowledge of this: How what seems like a “just until…” move becomes irrevocable and the years pile up and you never go back.

I think transferring might be her best option. Even if some classes don’t transfer well. What exactly is the reality of that? Can you call a cheap in-state school and specifically discuss your kid’s transcript/actual courses, and see what they say? Honestly at this point, a degree that’s somewhere in the ballpark of what your daughter initially signed up for would be preferable than nothing at all.

If she can avoid dropping out, she should, at all costs, because there is nothing more conducive to even more depression than staring at that huge student loan debt and knowing you don’t even have a degree to show for it.

As long as she’s mentally/emotionally able, whatever she needs to get her the degree should be the first priority.

Figure out options along those lines. Maybe there’s a family member or a friend who could help with the living situation & the cat.

I’m not sure I’m offering any ideas you haven’t already considered, but I did want to express support and sympathy.

6

To answer questions…she is currently going to Savannah College of Art & Design, specifically. I am not sure why the classes don’t transfer but MANY do not. Over the summer, she looked into trying to transfer to one of the state universities (we are in TN) and when she looked into what classes would transfer only, she would have been starting back down as a sophomore, basically, as far as needed credits. So, instead of needing a year and a half, she’d have needed 3 years of college and she does not want that either. Nor will that necessarily be cheaper since she will have to go longer.

The trouble with her just putting things off a semester, is that her loans will go into repayment. If you can imagine what the payment will be on $96,000, you can imagine that if I’m paying that, there won’t be money left for paying anything else. She isn’t the kind of person who can do school full time and work enough to make a real dent in anything. She just isn’t focused enough for that. I wish she was. So, I feel like she either has to stay in school so those loans aren’t in repayment OR she has to quit long enough to build up some money and be able to pay her own way. And, I’m not sure how either will work. I just worry about her finding work in this economy with so little experience and an incomplete degree.

Ideally, she wouldn’t have the cat (I hate how mean that sounds because I know she loves her cat) and she could move home and go to the community college here which would be cheap and would at least allow her to finish out some sort of associates in art. If she could do that, she could at least have some sort of degree to fall back on for all the money she’s paid. And, it’s not like she hasn’t learned anything at her current school. It’s just that I don’t know how she can translate it to a job without something tangible and conclusive to show for it. And, no, unfortunately, I don’t know anyone who could take the cat for her. She would never re-home it completely and we don’t have any family living near us except her brother and he lives with a bunch of guys (just graduated college) and no pets allowed.

Maybe I will have her call or email the community college here and see if they can advise her as to whether anything she has done will transfer and apply toward their associates degree. Maybe she can go from there.

7

Oh, and she would definitely finish out the classes in the current quarter. We would have to pay for them either way at this point so no reason not to. Her quarter ends in about 4 weeks so she’s close to those being done.

8

My own daughter is in the arts (theater design), and knowing it would be hard for her to make a living right out of college we followed a plan that kept her debt well below the total of the standard federal student loans. There is no way on earth that I am going to recommend that your family continue to load on the debt and push your daughter to finish her degree right now at SCAD.

I would advise her to finish out this term, then take a leave of absence. That will allow her to return within a certain period of time and complete her degree if she decides she wants to do that. The best thing she can do right now is take time off and get her mental health together. Time off will also allow her to sort through her career goals. Her first steps will be to find a place to live that will allow her cat, and to get a job. The rest will begin to sort itself out once those two things are in place.

Unless you are on some strange medical insurance plan, she should be able to remain on your family policy until she turns 26 because of the Affordable Care Act. Talk with your insurance carrier and verify the coverage. If it doesn’t have national coverage in that plan, she might have to choose between moving back to TN or moving to a state where it is easy to get her own coverage under the ACA.

SCAD is an art institute. Most of her credits are in fine arts and aren’t going to transfer easily. The same would be true if she were studying music or dance at a conservatory. Those programs have very few academic courses. Most of the time is spent in the specific art form. If you look at the full program required for her major, you will probably see only a year’s worth of Science/English/Math/History/etc. which is why the university she communicated with in TN estimated that she would likely enroll as a sophomore. What she needs to know however, is that if she transfers in as a fine art major, that department will be able to review her course syllabi from SCAD and her portfolio and will be able to determine which other credits can be awarded. That kind of thing normally happens after a student actually does enroll.

Wishing you and your daughter all the best.

9

I wish you and your D good health and good luck.
When she is ready to continue,
have you considered tuition reciprocity programs, which offer
in-state tuition tuition at colleges in other states. Such as at Georgia Southern University and its Statesboro campus in Savannah?

Not sure how transfer students are handled, but you could see how it compares to your local options. Has 2D Art major.

https://admissions.georgiasouthern.edu/requirements/out-of-state/

10

The cat has to go. She will never repay those loans if she has to pay rent and otherwise maintain an apartment. Even if her living expenses were only $1,000/month, at the end of the year, that’s $12,000 she can throw at her loans if she lives at home.
I would not throw good money after bad. (Even before you said it was SCAD, I figured that’s what it was. They’re a little notorious for this sort of thing.) I would encourage her to move home, get a degree at a local school that you can pay for out-of-pocket, and start throwing money at those loans. If she goes straight through school, she should have a degree in something in two years. Then she can figure out what she wants to do with her art, but she will at least be qualified for jobs that just require “a” degree.

11

Time for counseling ASAP.

I see so many red flags in your post- for her, for you, for your husband.

Ten years from now you will all look back on the cat issue and wish you’d had an independent observer help your D see that taking on rent, utilities, etc. for the sake of a pet- however much beloved- was a very short-sighted and terrible decision. Ten years from now you and your husband will kick yourselves for not insisting that she finish this semester-- then withdraw, and once her mental health has stabilized, get a job, while living at home, and throwing every dime she earns against the debt.

College will be there once she’s stable. The debt will only continue to grow- balloon. Your mental health is going to spiral once you actually look at a loan repayment schedule and realize what you are all taking on if she finishes at SCAD-- given that she doesn’t enjoy her studies, and likely will only finish with an enormous price to her mental health.

A job-- any job- is going to better than continuing in a program she doesn’t like with ruinous loans.

12

As much as I’m a pet lover, I agree with the others who say to re-home the cat, finish the semester, medically withdraw, have your D move back home, and therapy ASAP.

At this point you can’t undo the decision to let her go to SCAD with those big loans but you can stop bleeding money.

13

One thought about her cat. I know for us, our pets are truly family to us, and there is an even bigger bond with an ES pet. But if she is unable to afford rent then does she have a friend who would adopt her cat? Ideally close by, so she could visit it? That may help the situation. And perhaps she could get another pet that would work in your home? (My oldest def needs an ES pet… it does help… and there are many options.)

I’m sure she is feeling overwhelmed in every way. So maybe you could suggest it, just one time so as not to escalate that situation. In time, she will probably come to the same conclusion. If living at home would help financially and emotionally, then that seems like what she needs.

In the case of my oldest, we had to provide space when things were heated. But eventually there was only one right answer and he himself came to the right conclusion.

14

OP, I have three adult children with mental health diagnoses ranging from mild to debilitating. Hugs to you, because I know how tough it can be.

You need to honestly gauge the depth of your daughter’s depression. If there is ANY chance it is life-threatening, you need to get her home NOW. As another CC user told me years ago, at this age, the most important thing is to “keep the ball in play,” as dire as that sounds. I lost a 20-year-old nephew to suicide, so this is a real thing for me.

If you think she is stable enough to finish the semester, she should do that and then take a leave of absence to heal up. That could take awhile, but life is not a race. As @blossom says, you don’t want to look back in ten years and say, “Why didn’t we _________?”

15

If she is willing and able to work, she could consider a job at Starbucks, where she could enroll in the ASU degree program tuition free. They offer a few art-related degrees, or she could complete any of a huge number of other programs with no additional debt (while making money to pay living expenses).

16

I would need to know how far into the junior year she is before giving an opinion. Specifically how many credits she has done and how many left. If 4 quarters remain, that is one year, not two. Typically, at the end of this semester, that would mean 90 credits done, 30 left. You mentioned $30k debt expected to finish in addition to the $96k already acquired.

I would not underestimate the effect of COVID on this situation. She is most likely relatively isolated, and doing art virtually is very unsatisfying. I know because I tried a class. It is hard to share work and feel a sense of community as well. I would NOT make any permanent decisions now, but I would accommodate her needs in this dystopian situation we are all in.

First, she should probably take a leave after this semester. That does not mean she has to withdraw entirely. She can easily take a medical leave with documentation of her depression and anxiety. In fact, she could do that now and possibly wipe the slate clean of any bad grades (but that is not financially wise, so only do this if it is urgent in terms of mental health).

She can also withdraw entirely and if she gets well and wants to finish at Savannah, can go back if admitted. In fact, she can apply after she reaches age 24 based on her own income.

The debt can be looked at two different ways, aside from regretting it in the first place. One, don’t acquire any more. Two, she already has $96k, possibly with nothing to show for it, and could acquire $126k, with something to show for it- a degree from a highly regarded art school with the potential connections that might provide.

There ARE alternatives. One example might be Lesley University (Cambridge MA) which has an adult learner program that would fit her needs. Lesley also has the Art Institute. Lesley would accept up to 90 credits, and their art school is excellent. In the adult learner program, you can live on your own and work, and take anywhere from 1 to 5 courses at a time. Lesley is a liberal arts school so she would have to take some non-art classes, and she would have to do 10 classes minimum at Lesley itself. It is worth investigating. There would be loans there too, but possibly much more affordable.

Goddard College is another possibility. It is a low residency program where she could major in art, and again, they would take 90 credits. She would attend 10 days per semester and then do work on her own with a mentor.

I would think that any BFA program would take a lot of her credits, but transferring to a BA program might pose problems. But I don’t know how art schools work. Transferring from conservatory to conservatory in music is a lot different from transferring from a conservatory BM program to a university BA.

But none of this is as important as first getting her healthy.

Does she have a therapist and psychiatrist at school? Is she going to be better off at home? Does she need medication adjustments? Would that help her stay?

Many students have mental health issues and stay and finish. That call is hers and yours. We don’t know. Again COVID makes a leave more than reasonable. Especially for art majors and other applied majors.

During this hopefully temporary virus crisis, I would not burn any bridges. Have her take a medical leave with the ability to come back. That would be my position with the information you have given. With one year left, she might be able to finish, and the debt would be larger, but her ability to pay it back greater.

If she leaves and decides to withdraw formally, she can always work for awhile and go back if she wants to.

If there is any chance you can pay off some of that loan now, it might be good to do so to take the pressure off. Did she take the loans with the expectation that she herself would pay it all back? If you have any ability to reduce it now, I would do so.

I would say that she could get an accommodation for reduced course load, when she returns, and any financial aid should extend for that, but it will still most likely cost you more.

Health insurance is not a problem until she is 26, unless you have no insurance yourself.

The cat…she can’t possibly pay rent just so she can keep the cat. I would suggest that she keep the cat in her room. I know people who have done that. If you have more room in your house, the cat could be in two rooms that you don’t use. Does Claritin help you?!

If that doesn’t work, then surely someone in your town can take a cat, and she can visit. Until she can have the cat again.

I would stay flexible but firm.

Finally, you indicated that you tried to talk your daughter out of going to Savannah but she wouldn’t listen, yet your husband co-signed a loan. It would appear that your daughter has a lot of control. This can be good and bad. I sought counseling myself when one of my kids had a mental health challenge and that might help you too. Unfortunately that may be virtual too!

17

This seems to be a mental health issue compounded by financial concerns.

Let her & her emotional support cat move back home. For allergies, buy an over-the-counter non-drowsy antihistamine such as Allegra and an air purifier for your bedroom.

These are issues commonly faced by SCAD students.

P.S. If the biggest mistake that I ever made in my life could be resolved by making loan payments on a $96,000 student loan, then I would be very thankful.

Perspective is important. Your daughter’s mental health is much more important than minor allergies or student loan repayments. Have faith in your daughter, yourself, and in a higher power. These obstacles are not insurmountable.

Focus on positives.

18

I have severe allergies and can assure you that in my case, keeping a cat in my kids room with an air purifier and a boatload of Claritin would not do the trick. Everyone I know claims “you just need to use a HEPA vacuum” (I’ve got three) or “get rid of wall-to-wall carpeting” (haven’t had it in 30 years).

Perspective?

19

For reference, SCAD is on the quarter system, where the regular academic year consists of three 10-week quarters, and the summer session is another 10-week quarter. This means twelve quarters in four academic years. 180 quarter credits are needed to graduate (average of 15 per quarter). 1 quarter credit = 2/3 semester credit.

So it is likely that the student in question is in the seventh quarter out of twelve, with five more remaining. If she averaged 15 credits per quarter, she will have completed 105 quarter credits (= 70 semester credits) by the end of this quarter, though the actual number will depend on what she actually completed.

Of course, if some SCAD courses that she has taken are seen as non-transferable (even as general electives) by other colleges, she may need to take more than 75 quarter (= 50 semester) credits at a college she transfers to in order to graduate. Also, if subject requirements (for major or general education) at the new college require more credits, that could also extend time (and cost) to graduation.

20

@blossom: Sorry to read about your allergies.

OP will have to make her own decisions based on her situation.

Perspectives = Daughter’s mental health & well being is much more important than typical allergies & student debt. I understand that your priorities & your perspective may differ; my advice was directed to the OP.