hahahaha I notice that Art Institutes - Minnesota isn’t even included in that list. Guess we don’t quite measure up.
Or maybe Art Institutes-Minnesota has higher standards and won’t accept the credits (or wants ALL the money!)
That list of " top" 20 Design schools by Graphic Design magazine is VERY misleading. It is NOT a list of top 20 schools. It’s a list of 20 schools of where SOME of the students who (I think) won awards attended school and then the magazine threw in a couple more of their own choices. Two TOTALLY different things.
University of Cinncinati–did someone already mention that?
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Looking at SAA website–you need to go pretty deep–seems 81 per cent of graphic design jobs require a BA.
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What worries me about their claim for 100% placement is this unexplained phrase
“100% of graduates eligible for career services” - makes me wonder what makes one ineligible? It could be that 90% of the students are “ineligible” for career services so 100% of the 10% that are eligible are employed. I think they are playing with words.
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Ahh…maybe “eligible” means that those that couldn’t find/get jobs are pushed into BA programs…and then those students don’t get counted because they’re suddenly “ineligible for career services”.
http://www.saa.edu/externships-class-of-2015/
Ohio, not NYC, Chi, LA.
@mom2collegekids I think the kids have to earn their associates degree to be “eligible” and if the school weeds heavily that’s a small # of kids. Per College Navigator 113 enter in a year, and 50 earn their degree so that stat is actually under 50%. (Their reported rate is 60% so we can probably say between 50-60% complete their degree?). With a low transfer-out rate I doubt the remainder is going on to a BA program somewhere. Not sure where they are going - were they college eligible in the first place??? That’s actually a key question here.
Some general comments - I apologize for the thoroughness but I’ve been thinking a lot about this type of program. So here goes:
There probably is a certain kind of student who does well at career schools such as SAA, or Full Sail, or the AI schools. So it doesn’t surprise me that GDUSA would include their work in the coveted “students to watch” column. Many of it’s rankings and inclusions in the “top 20” are based on peer reviews - perhaps it is merely a schill for SAA but I’d think if that were the case many other “legit” schools wouldn’t be using GDUSA in their own advertising. Which they do. So they must believe (or at least they believe that WE believe) that the periodical has some “rigor”. Most likely the ones who make it to finish SAA’s program can hold their own in the industry at first. And that SAA ensures that through it’s weeding process.
The real risk is what kind of student are they recruiting in the first place (see my comment above). Obviously they aren’t one of the schools attending Portfolio Day. So if it provides what appears to be an “easy entry” into the world of GD (no pressure, friendly “admissions” staff, great sales pitch) for a bunch of sub-talented, naive and possibly NOT college-eligible kids and their equally naive parents that’s where the bilking potential is at it’s greatest. And of course the school qualifies to administer student loans and we all know what an amazingly large cash cow THAT is.
But even for the talented kids I’d be concerned about the lack of quality education. My thoughts on this are many but the most telling evidence that these kids are NOT in an environment that generates top-notch creatives is that NO SCHOOL from the NASAD will take those credits. Not one. NASAD schools take in transfers all the time but those kids have to have minimum training in foundational principles of art and design - guess what is likely NOT being taught at SAA? If you train students for one skill in one industry and then weed through them you are going to find a few who happen to be great. But it’s more like chimps at the typewriter. A couple might happen to compose a pretty good poem or two in the short run but none will sustain a life of creative authorship.
Overall it’s just a bad idea to invest money in this type of school. It’s NOT significantly cheaper than a professional school of art/design (on an equivalent number of years basis), it doesn’t conform to the admission standards nor the recruiting practices of those schools. I doubt it has the connections. And when you consider the high drop out rate and low transfer rate it speaks volumes about the type of “student” they are getting. Even a talented kid who might do well at the SAA’s of the art education world is better off sticking to the conventional four-year path of the BFA. The work is MUCH harder but the benefits are going to be higher and they are going to last.
OP–I know you already said you aren’t paying for this. And that’s absolutely the right decision. We’re just building your case for you. Mamelot is correct–more traditional schools with good reputations are cheaper in the long run.
Your D may have to take a gap year to get on the right track. But it won’t be wasted. She can take art classes, do pre-college, self-study computer programs, work to save some bucks. SAA curriculum is heavy on learning some easily obtainable computer programs (which get outdated quickly by the way )–she can learn those on her own, on-line or through community classes.
. Magical thinking doesn’t help as you already know–if she doesn’t have a portfolio, a real interest in learning the computer, art background–it won’t appear overnight and going to SAA wouldn’t help either even if it WERE a viable option (which it certainly is not!). A year could make a world of difference to her if she gets a plan together.
Exactly. In addition, what the hard sell approach often accomplishes is to get potential students on this ‘one track mind’ approach so that they don’t even consider other schools. The end result is that they ramp up this crazy amount of drama where it’s “this school or bust”, and they have a point since if they don’t attend this school they don’t have any other colleges they can attend right away.
It’s not just schools like SAA that have this though; a lot of students deliberately back themselves into this kind of corner. I suspect that it’s at least partly as a ploy to help twist their parents’ arms. If you only apply to SAA or BU or NYU or wherever, you pretty much have to go if you’re accepted, right? Either that, or stay at home for another year doing nothing…
The good news is that there still are a lot of opportunities that have been identified in this thread. I don’t know how late it is to start some of them for this coming fall though.
If OP’s DD were on board at this point, there would be plenty of time.
The big issue would be to see how long it would take her to figure out a gap year might be a great idea. If she ends up at SAA even for half a year that might affect her freshman entry status elsewhere. She could become a transfer student w/o recognized credits to transfer.
DD and her family should definitely read up on the lawsuits alleging “fraud” that have been filed against these kinds of schools.
These [url=<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/1774204-these-colleges-are-still-seeking-students-for-fall-2015-p1.html%5Dcolleges%5B/url”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/1774204-these-colleges-are-still-seeking-students-for-fall-2015-p1.html]colleges[/url] are still taking applications for this fall.
So my ex wife just sends me a text asking if it was true that mom would help for my D’s educations. I said yes she would provide 15k and that I still wasn’t on board with any of this. I then sent her a long text explaining what many of you have said and suggested on here as well as reiterating what I have told her before.
She says I’ve made clear my feelings on it and she respects that. She then said she doesn’t care what anyone else thinks…
I’m really upset right now. I just want to call her up and cuss her out.
I really feel like deciding not even to continue paying her the support I said I was going to. I really don’t want enable her in any way in going to this school. I’ve already said I would though. I hate this.
Just Say No.
Seems to.me that the rest of the chat just obscures the No. I don’t think I would have offered Granny’s 15k without the strict caveats discussed here. You did leave the discussion open, in that respect. Not sure why.
So what is the point, now? Isn’t some of this dangling them? Like, Yeah, Granny will pay 15k, now the balance is 40?
No long texts. What’s really going on? Is this about the dynamics between you and ex? How long does that go on?
If you posted her stats and interests, there are a lot of people here who have already offered to help you find alternatives to suggest to your daughter. Time to move on to finding a good plan for your D’s future.
And maybe they were hoping all along that your mom would pay ?
****If you posted her stats and interests, there are a lot of people here who have already offered to help you find alternatives to suggest to your daughter. Time to move on to finding a good plan for your D’s future.
And maybe they were hoping all along that your mom would pay ? ****
You don’t understand. They(my ex and daughter) are not listening. Their mind is made up.
Then the conversation is done. You move forward with your girl, as best you can.
I’m done with it. Best I can hope for is they get denied the loan, her friend backs out/can’t go, or one of them comes to their senses. I’ve made my stance VERY clear and it’s done no good.
@maintainin, even assuming they get the money from G’ma, are Ex and Mike going to be able to qualify as cosigners? Perhaps this will all work out in that it falls apart financially.
BTW, do NOT be a go between for your ex and your mom. If your ex wants that money from G’Ma she had better ask for it herself. And do NOT let your mom cosign anything!
Update: you answered my question with your last post. Yes, that would actually be a blessing at this point.
@maintainin, even assuming they get the money from G’ma, are Ex and Mike going to be able to qualify as cosigners?
No idea. What happens if they get the loan the first year and not the next? They’d probably come back to me and then expect me to do it. NOPE. Sorry you now have all that debt and one year of a half-assed degree.
One of the last things my ex told me was to bring it up to my daughter if she wants to talk about it further. LOL. Like I’m getting on her nerves with all this common sense I’m throwing at her. I was just like, Naw I’m done talking to my daughter about it as well.