Yes, it’s frustrating. “Their mind is made up.” Talking to brick walls is useless. But if there isn’t any money then she isn’t going. It appears that they are waiting for you to be the bank. Bank is closed.
You can’t change them but you can stick to your guns. No money, nada, take it all back and (while I don’t condone going back on your word) I would probably withdraw support payment promises–but only because I think this is such a spectacularly bad idea and would hate to send good money after bad. Save the money in an education account for her–a real education.)
Don’t EVEN GO THERE on giving 15K of your mom’s money towards this fiasco–take the offer off the table now and TELL your mom that too. When your D decides on a GOOD option for her life and education, THEN your mom can help out.
So, help us out? What is the real academic story with your D ?
Grades, SAT scores, art portfolio? Do you even know? Ask her.
Some schools don’t even require SATs, for example depending on major. There may even be vocational options that might suit your D’s need even better giving her the SAME background as SAA without the huge cost (especially since they offer ONLY an AA degree).
I do understand that they are not listening to you at all, what I’m saying is don’t give up just yet. You can give up in september if she’s enrolled in this option anyway. And I do understand how easy it is to dismiss and blame a father on the other side of the world because my family situation is similar to yours, except I’m several years older than your D and in professional school. Your D is a young vulnerable teenager who is being supported in what everyone seems to agree is a bad decision. You just owe it to her in my eyes to keep trying.
Try a detailed sales pitch of her other options (not just giving her names of colleges, give her a detailed description of courses and career options, offer to take her to visit…). Send them to her in an email if she won’t answer the phone, at least you’ll be able to honestly say come september that you did everything you could until the last minute. Try being twice (or 1000 times) as stubborn as them.
“Naw, I’m done talking to my daughter about it as well.” So don’t. Really. Don’t add fuel to the fire.
The topic will come up again soon enough I suspect.
Brick wall syndrome…
I feel for you being stuck in such a hard spot and can understand how frustratingly angry you must be with all this…but your D is stuck in a hard place as well. She’s grasping at straws and doesn’t realize how crippling debt can be NOR her OPTIONS. Everybody has options. Always. Some are way better than others but going into huge debt for a questionable degree shouldn’t be one. Don’t allow her to do that to herself.
She obviously doesn’t have a great support system close by right now steering her in the proper direction. I know you can’t physically be there for her. Anybody who can help? Like someone posted above CC can respond to her questions–all she needs to do is ask.
I take it back on staying quiet…like oneandone said…keep trying to fight this until Sept. at least. Sometimes little chips still weaken a brick wall. You’ll feel horrible if you thought you could have done or said something to prevent this and didn’t make the extra effort.
But stay clear of any fall-out–your mom, you–don’t sign anything for any reason. Don’t give any money. Don’t make any promises.
So my ex texts me a few minutes ago with the schools phone number and wants me to call them. I said I’m not interested in their sales pitch. She then proceeds to call me arrogant. I say well if we’re calling names now I find her to be reckless and irresponsible. This sucks so bad.
“I’m sorry. We I cannot support this plan. Now, I have somewhere to be…”
No discussing. You have either made your mind up or not.
Unless this really is about the dynamics. And if so, wasted time, unproductive, maybe worse.
OP doesn’t have to keep nagging the kid. He can make a genuine expression of love and offer to be there when she is ready to discuss options. I’m not comfortable with the way this is dragging on. We keep hearing the “one more” bit of info. Continuing the “Bad ex, good OP” schtick gets nowhere.
Support your daughter, be done with this discussion.
Would it help if they could see how much your daughter would have to pay back each month after she graduates? The figures probably won’t mean much to your daughter unless she has earned money and had to budget for her expenses, but it may be a wake up call to your ex. Here’s a link to an interactive graphic/calculator where they could put in best case figures and see how much the monthly payments would be and also how much she would end up paying after accounting for all the interest.
Assuming 50K of tuition loans and Grandma’s 15K covering most of the living expenses for two years your daughter would have to earn a salary of $48,828 for repayments to be 20% of salary. That’s a full 10K per year more than the advertising school is touting. She’ll end up paying $62,647 for her two year degree assuming a ten year term at 4.66% interest.
There’s just a chance that if they input the figures themselves reality might get a look in.
***“I’m sorry. We I cannot support this plan. Now, I have somewhere to be…”
No discussing. You have either made your mind up or not.
Unless this really is about the dynamics. And if so, wasted time, unproductive, maybe worse.
OP doesn’t have to keep nagging the kid. He can make a genuine expression of love and offer to be there when she is ready to discuss options. I’m not comfortable with the way this is dragging on. We keep hearing the “one more” bit of info. Continuing the “Bad ex, good OP” schtick gets nowhere.
Support your daughter, be done with this discussion.***
I haven’t initiated a text all day. She’s the one who keeps on coming at me with this(even after she told me to talk to my daughter about it for now on earlier in the day…lol) She obviously still is trying to get me on board with this.
I am done. I’m not talking to my daughter about this(meaning anything to do with this school) anymore and I’m not talking to my ex about it anymore. If they keep bringing it up I will, as I’ve done countless times, tell them I don’t support it. I’ve turned my phone off as I have plans this evening and am not going to allow this to ruin the rest of my day. If I have to I’ll just temporarily block her if it keeps up. I’ll stop with posting the texts. I’m not trying to make out like my ex is a bad person and I’m some saint. But she clearly is not thinking very straight with all of this.
For what it’s worth, I think that part of the reason that this is protracted is because there is still time for you to change your mind. They’re not going to want to discuss alternatives until the enrollment deadline for this school (if it has one) passes and they run out of options. Until then, the only thing that you can do is what you’re doing now.
Trust me I’m not wavering but can somebody explain to me what this means as far as accreditation? This is off their website:
The School of Advertising Art is accredited by the Accrediting Commission of Career Schools and Colleges [ACCSC]. The ACCSC is listed by the U.S. Department of Education as a nationally recognized accrediting agency.
SAA receives its Associate Degree authorization and Certificate of Registration [#85-03-0958T] from the Ohio State Board of Career Colleges and Schools, Columbus, Ohio.
Since they know your mom would pay $15k, talk to your mom to make sure she understands your current position.
Grandma should reserve her money for the right school at a future point in time, and not succumb to a teary, begging phone call from granddaughter to send the money now.
Actually, for a school of art and design which is what SAA really purports to be (albeit “specialized” in the advertising industry), the gold standard is NASAD (National Association of Schools of Art and Design). Here’s the Wiki on it. Good description.
These schools have established standards for curriculum, set up a review process for rising art students known as Portfolio Day, and done a bunch of other things to ensure quality and consistency among it’s member institutions. You do NOT have to be an independent college of art to be a member of NASAD - many state colleges and universities are also members. What you DO have to achieve in order to earn and periodically renew the accreditation is adhere to a rigorous review process. No member is guaranteed membership - even the charter members much undergo review every so many years.
The benefit of an NASAD designation is that you basically have a good idea as to what you are getting in, say, the graphic design program.
Similar to NASAD, other accrediting associations for colleges and universities are going to review their members in order to assure quality standards in keeping with a member of their particular organization, etc. What you tend to see for most post secondary institutions is accreditation with the regional body, accreditation with the state for degree-granting purposes, and then if it’s a specialty school such as architecture or art and design, accreditation with the relevant organization in those fields.
Conversely, SAA is accredited primarily by an association of career schools. Here’s the link for accreditation standards from the association’s website:
@maintainin, please read my earlier post on my concerns regarding why these types of schools might be very risky relative to the conventional 4-year college path. And then, regarding art and design in particular, you need to understand that not one NASAD school accepts credits from SAA. That’s key to understanding that what SAA offers its students may be very mediocre compared to what a conventional art and design school offers for it’s curriculum. Furthermore, I note from the SAA website that they are a bit light on the descriptions of their courses. I saw NO descriptions of studio courses - only vague explanations of what the students would be doing. It was very focused on “externships” and “career”. A rigorous BFA program will ALWAYS provide the detail of the four-year curriculum, including studio and academic courses.
@maintainin Their minds are made up, but they can’t force YOU to do the wrong thing.
Again, do NOT go along with the idea that Granny’s money will all go towards Year One. Split it up!
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No idea. What happens if they get the loan the first year and not the next? They’d probably come back to me and then expect me to do it. NOPE. Sorry you now have all that debt and one year of a half-assed degree.
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this is another reason to split up Granny’s money into two years. Make THEM qualify for at least $17k the first year. See if Mike is willing ( I suspect he won’t be)…MAKE THEM SHOW THEIR CARDS.
THEIR TALK IS CHEAP…make them show the money with approved loans.
Don’t worry about your DD and cosigned loans with your exW and her H. Those will soon be the Custodial Parents Problem…a problem that they solely created.
@madison85 He may not know what they are. The DD may never have taken the SAT or ACT …and he may just vaguely know what her grades have been…but no specifics.
I know this has been asked several times and I don’t know what her SAT and ACT scores are. I know she’s been honor roll most of her high school but I don’t know the other scores.
And honestly, it’s a moot question at this point. She is not entertaining any other options at the moment. At all. She doesn’t want to hear it.
The SAT/ACT is “recommended” for admission but not required. Some very reputable colleges also do not require these standardized tests; however, they DO publish the scores of those who submit. SAA does NOT. Again, an indication that they may not be attracting college eligible kids.
***@maintainin Their minds are made up, but they can’t force YOU to do the wrong thing.
Again, do NOT go along with the idea that Granny’s money will all go towards Year One. Split it up!***
I kind of regret even mentioning my mom would put 15k towards her education. I talked to my mom today and told her to put the 15k towards the second year and second year only if she wants to do that.