It’s great that you are willing to go to her graduation party, and hopefully this subject won’t come up.
If it does come up, I would recommend keeping a clear focus on what you ARE willing to do for her, such as the amount you would be willing to contribute at U of Cincinnati, etc. I would stick to specific, 4-year, BA art programs. This is sensible and fair.
BFA, BA, BS. Will depend on the specific program as to which specific degree. I think UCinn might be BS for design - not sure. It’s also a five year program I think due to the co-op.
In any case, all of these are the accepted bacheor’s degree for an art/design program.
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If it does come up, I would recommend keeping a clear focus on what you ARE willing to do for her, such as the amount you would be willing to contribute at U of Cincinnati, etc. I would stick to specific, 4-year, BA art programs. This is sensible and fair.
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I agree that if the subject does come up, this dad needs to be prepared with a response such as the above. The dad is continuing chid support payments directly to the dau. I wouldn’t necessarily say UCinn, since she couldn’t go there this fall. I would identify a CC or two within commuting distance of her home that could provide the 2 years education (cheaply) and then a later transfer to UCinn or elsewhere.
and, of course, if his words are not treated with respect, then he and granny need to be prepared to exit gracefully, but quickly.
Not that it would be likely possible or even really appropriate, it would be interesting since the whole graduation day would be an opportunity for this dad to find out how the step-dad really feels about all of this. I suspect that he’s not fully onboard and will only go along with the borrowing if this dad borrows first.
The dau’s early mention of “dad borrowing the first year” was a big red flag for me. She’s 18ish. It’s not likely that, on her own, she would even be thinking about which parent would or should borrow first. The fact that she mention that specific aspect to her dad awhile ago, is very telling. Likely, mom knows that her H refuses to cosign the first year, and therefore she has told her D that they NEED dad to cosign for year one.
Stick to your guns on this–it is the right decision to just say no.
that all being said, while I respect her wish to not ruin your time together talking about it, I would tell her that you will totally not discuss it except on Tues Night from 7-9 pm–I would insist on some small window of time to have the conversation (and then shut up, good, bad or indifferent).
several people have asked about her portfolio and I haven’t seen an answer–taking a “few pieces” of art along to an interview isn’t exactly a portfolio. part of my discussion would be to insist she develop a serious one, even if she just spends the summer taking various non-credit art classes…if you google college art portfolios she can see exactly what types of art she’ll need to include. bet me she has nothing like what would be required for a legitimate art school.
(this may not be affordable either, but i’m making a point!). have her look into somewhere like Moore in Philly.
http://moore.edu/admissions/bfa-admissions/admission-requirements/spring-summer-accelerated-option
I couldn’t tell if they have rolling admissions, but for some reason I think they do. tell her you will spend the $60 for the app fee and see what she says about that…no doubt she’ll have an argument against it, but explain if she is truly serious about her art she’ll want to make the most of her loans.
moore also has a pre-college residential program–iirc it was around $4500ish for the summer. it quite possibly may be full by now. but if its not, i’d see if your mom was willing to offer part of her gift to do something like that to even see if its a viable career option. its a tough, mostly project based career path-if she doesn’t have at least some raw talent and truly loves what she does, well, there are plenty of enormously talented, hungry job candidates at the head of the line. (as a parent, we all think our kids are talented–sometimes it helps to take off the rose colored glasses and actually compare our kids to their peer group).
you are a good parent. you have the absolute right to say no. there is a very, very good reason an 18 year old cant take $58,000 in loans out themselves…and it has nothing to do with good credit.
hope it all works out to everyones satisfaction!
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several people have asked about her portfolio and I haven’t seen an answer–taking a “few pieces” of art along to an interview isn’t exactly a portfolio
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I agree…but seriously, the OP himself could have shown up with stick figures on a restaurant napkin and this place would have accepted him as long as he’d be willing to pay.
Much of this reminds me of being a hs kid. Remember the old advertisements, “You too can be an artist?” It was Famous Artists School, at the time, a mail interaction program. I did the copy of Popeye and maybe also a dog, and, yup, they wanted me!
NO where have I found that SAA is top rated. There was an article that A STUDENT did top rated work and happened to attend SAA—totally different by a long shot. From absolutely everything I have found, you should stay far, far away from this school (which after pages is the consensus).
As always, no matter where you go, talent will always win out. An excellent artist may not need school. Good /better artists can become excellent with proper training Poor artists don’t have a chance. Good schools don’t usually accept less talented students–it ruins their reputation.
The best schools have portfolio review to select good or better artists that they can train to become excellent. Some rely on grades (which means in most cases that a candidate IS trainable even though they haven’t got a strong portfolio to begin).
But that doesn’t mean a bad school wouldn’t have portfolio review–they’ll accept anybody and if by chance a real artist appears at their door they probably let them in cheap to gain any kind of reputation.
Many for-profit schools do just as SAA does–they are NOT teaching art. They offer computer instruction. They don’t guarantee anything except to take your money.
To OP–go to the graduation party and support your D. Have fun! On some other thread I read the advice of
“Don’t throw away any Golden Opportunity of keeping your mouth shut”…(this is my new favorite!) If ex or H ask why you don’t want to finance it–tell them truthfully that you’ve done the research and “in the best interests of your D and because you love her–you have to refuse.” End. (or something similar–get a good line ready though). If a guest asks what your D’s plans are–“still exploring options”. And stuff a pretzel in your mouth. Followed by a beer :).
When your D visits, hopefully she’ll broach the subject. Listen first. Ask questions. Don’t offer opinions until she asks for one. The more you can relax together the easier it will be to talk.
But if the week nears its end and she hasn’t brought it up–I would. In this case the golden opportunity is to say something and give your reasoning face-to-face in a loving way which text messages can’t do.
Your ex (and maybe D) have some fantasy financial thinking going on that you can’t change. Yet. I’m not sure what words to say to persuade them. Sounds like you’re trying your best. Good job! Don’t give up though–sometimes you can say that one thing that makes the switch in thinking. I’ve seen it happen hundreds of times. The simple fact that you’re against it is great so don’t waver --they don’t understand why yet but maybe the lightbulb will go on.
Need to suggest a clarification. It’s true some artists have self-made success. But the purpose in an art program at a decent school is to focus and refine their ideas, talents and skills, offer serious critical review and expose them to other media and academics, to broaden the resources they can draw on. Graphic design is both art and a marketing tool. It’s more than the ability to draw two dimensional or use bright colors.
I’m not sure SAA is “teaching” them to be creative, inspired or be anything more than vocational workers in some aspect of art. Or teaching them anything in between. Someone else’s designs, someone else’s needs, here’s the computer program. Even at a trade tech school (or TT at a cc,) kids learn to be functioning artists- learning drafting, perspective, how to render a picture of that part they intend to make or where the pipe is supposed to come up from the basement. Whatever. That’s valid, but different than what we usually consider the pursuit of “art.”
Valid point, @lookingforward. The portfolios on the SAA website are formulaic rather than original or creative. Some of the pieces are well done but what you don’t see is the student’s unique style. It would be really hard to develop that in a two year program anyway and my guess is that the school is more about graphic design basics that it is about fostering and developing a creative vision.
Thanks everybody for the continued support. This place has been a big help in more ways than one.
@Mom2collegekids. The red flag you bring up about my daughter mentioning that I pay for the first year when we talked definitely is a great point. Not something an 18 year old would be thinking about. More likely she has been told that. You’re pretty sharp. 
Maybe the plan has been all along to get me to sign for the first year and ultimately end up paying for the second year as well after conveniently finding out they don’t qualify for the second year loan. It makes me wonder.
But really, that’s just another part of how I feel in this situation. Like I’ve been set up in a no win situation. There’s a ploy at work here. And I’m not 100% sure what the heck is going on. All this has been dumped in my lap. Now I’m the a-hole. But that really doesn’t bother me. The only people’s opinion I care about all agree with me. Minus my daughter’s at the moment of course. But after some time I hope that changes.
I also agree that talent is what makes somebody a successful artist. Not the school. If you have the talent you will succeed no matter what art school you go to(and as mentioned no school may even be required). If you’re a great artist, you’ll be great. If you’re not no amount of schooling will fix that. That is so spot on.
58k to learn photoshop. Get out!
At this party, it is fair, at some point and calmly, nice smile, if possible, to say just that:
I love you, but not this school choice. I’ll support you in trying to find another opportunity.
Sandwich technique: good bad good. But that’s it. Maybe a hand on her shoulder or a hug. If she asks how much or how long, why or anything, you suggest it be discussed another time.
Just to add. I’m sure it’s going to come up while she’s visiting. Being together for a week I don’t see how it’s not going to. I like the bringing it up on Tuesday between 7-9 idea. I don’t want it to put a damper on our time together and I know she doesn’t either. Talk about it one more time. Try to keep the emotions in check. And leave it be after that no matter how it turns out.
Just to be clear–a great art school can be an invaluable education. And teach skills you can’t get on your own.
Most importantly, hone talent to a greater degree than you never will achieve on your own. It’s the good/better artist growing to be an excellent artist scenario. And then employable.
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The red flag you bring up about my daughter mentioning that I pay for the first year when we talked definitely is a great point. Not something an 18 year old would be thinking about. More likely she has been told that. You’re pretty sharp. Maybe the plan has been all along to get me to sign for the first year and ultimately end up paying for the second year as well after conveniently finding out they don’t qualify for the second year loan. It makes me wonder.
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lol…not sharp, just probably more experienced with kids this age (my own, their friends, and the kids here on CC).
I just know that kids just aren’t thinking in those terms, especially at this point. In their heads, they’re just thinking, “I need mom and dad to pay for this,” the order of who pays/borrows first is not on their radar.
You could be right that the mom/SF are concerned that they might not qualify the second year, so they hope that if you 'invest" first, then you will “protect your investment” by borrowing again the second year. If that is true, that is really ugly. My gut tells me that either the SF won’t borrow first or they need this next year to “improve their credit”. If it’s not the credit issue, then the SF is hedging his bet by making sure they are only borrowing for the second year when they’re more sure that the D likes and will complete the program.
Not for nothing… take a look at the 2013 graduates on LinkedIn.
https://■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■/edu/alumni?id=35409&facets=&keyword=&dateType=graduated&startYear=&endYear=2013&incNoDates=true&start=0&count=10&filters=on&trk=edu-up-nav-menu-alumni
21 results, with 12 working in the field.
Ten individuals report a current place of work.
Similar results with the class of 2014
^^
Thank you for sharing.
And, I don’t see any careers/jobs mentioned that couldn’t have been easily gotten with an AA from a CC (for cheap)
Hey all, Just wanted to stop in and give an update. I talked to my daughter earlier. She is moving into an apartment there in Dayton with her friend next weekend. I asked her if she is going to the art school and if her mom cosigned those loans. She just responded with a cryptic “Yeah I’m going there.” So I take that as yeah and they feel it’s none of my business. Which I guess it’s not. If they or whoever want to take on all that debt then more power to them. I tried my best. She thanked me for continuing to send her the money I was sending my ex for child support. I just wished her the best and told her I would continue sending it.
So I don’t know. It’s out of my hands. All I can hope for is that it really does work out. I appreciate the time a lot of you all took with this thread. I’ll come back and update sometime in the future.
Thank you for the update. Was wondering what had happened.
I think you got the answer to your question. That’s the way many 17/18 year olds would answer, “yes, I’m going there.” I wouldn’t necessarily think it was a “none of your business” answer in regards to the loan. Doubt your D would think that way.
You’re doing the right thing: not co-signing those crazy loans, but still sending her child support beyond the court-ordered years.
How strange not to open up and try to have an authentic conversation about what is the next step in her life.
@BrownParent I’m not sure it’s strange for a 17/18 year old not to open up at this point. She’s likely distracted with the move in and all the excitement, and she may be a bit nervous about the whole thing.
Maybe during her second year ( I think this is a 2 year program), she’ll open up…but that may depend on whether she has any real talent.