I’ve worked in advertising with graphic designers and artists. They do not make a lot of money. “Real,” full time jobs (with benefits, etc.) are hard to come by. There is very little job security, and you’re easily replaceable by the zillions of (accomplished) freelancers willing to charge less than the company is paying you.
Your daughter has no clue how hard it is to get a job in the field, and how hard she’ll have to work to pay off those school loans.
Unless you’re talking something like Pratt or Rhode Island School of Design (prestigious, competitive schools), most art programs are not worth getting into major debt.
If your daughter is serious, she should look at her state universities, then do a lot of freelance projects to start building her portfolio and networking skills. THAT’s what gets people jobs: connections and a portfolio. And you don’t need to spend a fortune for that., particularly if all you end up with is a 2-year degree.
<<<
mom2collegekids…I know. I have thought about the living expenses as well. I dont know if she thinks the support I was going to still send her and some crappy part time job would cover that part or what. I honestly don’t know how much they(being my daughter, ex wife, stepdad, her side of family, etc…) have talked about this and thought this through.
[QUOTE=""]
[/QUOTE]
Well, if they expect that you’ll continue support payments then fairness would suggest that they’re going to “match” those support payments as well. lol
[QUOTE=""]
You know being my ex and all I just dont communicate with her that much. And unfortunately I don't talk to my daughter as much as I used to or would like to. She's the kind of kid you'd be lucky to get more than 3 words out of her at a time. I'm pretty much just dad way out here in BFE South Dakota that she talks to once in a while and see's once or twice a year. But I guess I'm still important enough to get hit up and asked to cosign a 25k loan. lol
[/QUOTE]
Just say “no”. There are very good art classes at CCs. (BTW…is this school even fully-accredited? or does it have one of those hokey local accreditations?).
Besides…most kids change their minds about their majors and career goals. What if your D does???
Who knows, they may not even qualify to co-sign that loan.
Maybe have your daughter contact advertising agencies and ask for their advice regarding schools. Finding people who are working in the field she wants to go into will hopefully give her a better perspective.
It doesn’t appear that the credits earned would be recognized by traditional colleges and universities if she were to seek a Bachelors degree in the future. It appears that they only have articulation agreements with other (expensive) art schools.
It doesn’t appear that this school is accredited by the agency that accredits the traditional colleges and univs in that region.
Having just looked at their website, their degree completion rate is in the 60% range. At the very least, you all should have a backup plan in the event that she starts the program but, for whatever reason, does not complete it.
The only reason she may end up going to this school is because her mom decided to cosign a 50k loan. And if she does God help them. I am having no part of it. I really don’t talk to my daughter much. I really dont want to get into why but its not for lack of trying. I will(hopefully) be spending a week with her at the end of May and will discuss with her more. I really can’t help her figure out the next four years when I’m half way across the country. But IMO, she should have been getting better advice from the people she actually see’s and talks to every day. I think she’s been sheltered and she’s been coddled. She really hasn’t had a meaningful job yet and has no concept of what life costs and how hard it is to make money.
<<<
The only reason she may end up going to this school is because her mom decided to cosign a 50k loan.
[QUOTE=""]
[/QUOTE]
If they do, then they are fools and you’re smart not to have anything to do with it.
I would be surprised if the step-father will go along with his wife co-signing that debt since he’d be on the hook as well when things go south.
And, again, the mom may not qualify.
If they tell you that the mom is going to cosign all those loans, then just make it clear that that they can’t come to you for “other expenses” (rent, food, etc), beyond the amount that you’ve decided to continue with child support.
I’m not surprised that the school only has a 60% completion rate. The hype is likely overblown and once there, the student/parents realize that the same can be had at a local CC or state school for cheaper. and, likely any co-signers can’t qualify for the second year of loans, or just refuses.
You have said you can continue paying what you are currently paying in child support, which is great. Do not get sucked into loans or providing more than you can afford (even if she is going to “pay you back”). I checked through their catalog and honestly she can get an AA from community college in Graphic Design plus take a handful of classes in photography, film and web design and have equal the experience that she would have at the expensive college and at a fraction of the cost.
<<<
I would be surprised if the step-father will go along with his wife co-signing that debt since he’d be on the hook as well when things go south.
[QUOTE=""]
[/QUOTE]
It’s funny you mention that. When my ex was trying to wheel and deal me on the phone she mentioned how her husband was totally against it and then he went to the school and talked to them and then he was OK with it. I’m thinking to myself yeah, I’m sure they have one hell of a sales pitch. They are basically trying to sell a product and have honed the act of selling it to perfection. I’m also thinking he’s still not on board totally and is probably thinking to himself “Thank God he decided not to cosign on that loan.”
I’ll probably be the scapegoat, which is totally fine with me. I’m thinking there’s alot of folks who agree with me but won’t come out and say it.
<<<
When my ex was trying to wheel and deal me on the phone she mentioned how her husband was totally against it and then he went to the school and talked to them and then he was OK with it.
[QUOTE=""]
[/QUOTE]
Well, we don’t really know what he’s ok with. And, we don’t know if he’d be ok with cosigning for $50k of debt…that is a different ballgame. That’s the cost of 2 cars in many cases.
I understand you don’t talk to your ex much (neither do I ) or see your kid much and TOTALLY agree this would be a no-way for me. That said, please do let your daughter know she has you in her corner as far as her life goes, that saying no to SAA doesn’t mean saying no to her. It could matter in the long run of your relationship with her that you know this sucks but it is what it is and you’ll always love her and think she is a talent (or whatever).
Plus you CAN help from across the country. A number of people here have given great suggestions that we were able to find online from all across America. And I would argue that if the other parents aren’t doing a good job of helping get information, you must give input.
Something no one else suggested is calling your daughter’s advisor/guidance counselor. It may be you can find out some other options (and maybe she has applied and been admitted to other schools, and maybe even received scholarships). Then you can at least have someone else in your corner talking some sense into this situation - and physically where your DD is.
Maybe your ex’s husband is figuring you will hold out and he doesn’t have to be the ‘bad guy’. Also, I do know what it is when there is a person who has it ‘my way or the highway’ - my mother was like that. If it was black and she said it was white, dad just nodded in agreement.
If she doesn’t go to one of the other school options, then I agree about looking at the colleges in MN that have reciprocity with SD. You could also discuss this with DD’s HS GC.
I wouldn’t trust a GC to give the best advice in a case like this because so many are STUPID when it comes to college costs.
I do agree that the 2nd Husband may be banking on the dad saying “no” so that he doesn’t have to be the bad guy. He’s the one who has to live with the wife now.
[QUOTE=""]
let your daughter know she has you in her corner as far as her life goes, that saying no to SAA doesn't mean saying no to her. It could matter in the long run of your relationship with her t
[/QUOTE]
This is very good advice. Do a little homework, look online to see what the CCs in her state, in your state, and in MN have to offer. (would your DD get instate rates to a MN school?)
Agree that many GCs have no backbone nor realistic impression on college costs and how to afford/pay. However it doesn’t hurt to call and find out if GC has any sense. Also may be able to find out other influences, other options.
Can get into CC I believe later in the game than some colleges. Sounds like OP doesn’t know about any other college acceptances.
I agree you have to hold your guns to what is affordable for school. She is only successful if she can graduate w/o heavy debt, and you will not agree to a parent loan.
<<<
Sounds like OP doesn’t know about any other college acceptances.
[QUOTE=""]
[/QUOTE]
I wonder if the D applied anywhere else?
Heck, I wouldn’t be surprised if the high school Art teacher recommended this school.
I don’t think the custodial parents have “done the math” in regards to real school costs (lodging, food, car, etc) and post-school costs (maybe need to move/live in a big city with pricey rents). Even if this school is talking about $50k salaries (which is very high), that will barely cover costs in a pricey city, much less be able to make payments on $50k+ of loans.
I’m not sure the dad has been told “the whole story”. All he’s being told is about the co-signed loans…HE HASN’T been told that the DD will ALSO have full Stafford/Direct Loans of about $27k on top of the $50k. The mom probably hasn’t disclosed that because dad will “do the math” and realize that NO WAY can DD pay that back.
There’s another issue that hasn’t been mentioned. We’re talking about TWO separate co-signed loans…one for each set of parents. WHAT will happen if DD can only make payments on - say - “mom’s cosigned loans”??? hmmmmmmm??? I doubt that mom (the ex-wife) is going to come to her ex-H’s rescue and help pay for DD’s delinquent loans that he co-signed.
Let’s be honest here . . . until such time as mom or daughter has an epiphany, the OP is screwed. Either the daughter won’t get to go to art school at all, and will blame him, or will attend and be forced to drop out at some point due to lack of funds, and will blame him. Or, best case scenario, she’ll complete art school, be amazingly successful, pay back all her loans, and still blame Dad for not supporting her!
I love both of the following ideas suggested earlier:
b** Look into available programs in MN. b** Offer to “match” any funds daughter is will to earn for herself prior prior to enrolling in art school.
I’d recommend that the OP make a detailed list of all available and affordable programs that he can possibly find and send it to daughter. I’d also recommend that if he’s willing to provide “matching” funds for pre-enrollment earned income, that he put that offer in writing and send it to his daughter, too.
The OP needs to document all his efforts to help his daughter, even if she’s not willing to consider any of his suggestions. If she has documentation, that’s something that she’ll be able to look at later, when things have calmed down. Even if it takes years for her to be willing to see Dad’s side of things, she’ll have proof, at that point, that he really did care and was trying to help.
I am paying a lot of money for D to get a studio art degree from NYU. She is a sculpture major and may or may not ever make any money directly form her art. But in the end, she has a BFA from a prestigious 4 year university. With her bachelors degree she can go in many different arts related directions–from teaching, working in a gallery or museum to helping run an arts advocacy program. She does not have a strong graphics arts background, but if needed, she could hone those skills and work in advertising ,etc. NYU has excellent job placement specifically through their art department but also university-wide. She is probably going to get a masters degree in art education.
If we couldn’t afford to send her to NYU debt free, she would not have attended. There isn’t a possibility that I would pay money to a 2-year institution when the standard for undergraduate education is the BFA degree.