I think the difference is on this board you are talking to people who actually know a lot about the college process, either because we’ve just been through it, or because they are an expert in some other way like many of the posters here. So you are getting rational advice backed up by a lot of facts. Notice how literally no-one on this board is supporting the decision for your daughter to take out huge loans to go to this 2-year institution??? And any of your friends or family that you repeat this story to can likely see the absurdity of taking out that amount of loans for a 2-year degree. Your daughter and her mom have not done the due diligence of comparing this offer to other options, so they are just repeating the sales pitch of the one school and making a very bad decision based on illogical information and emotion…sigh. Stick to your guns I say.
@midwest. She has mentioned not wanting to go to CC several times.CC is garbage. Its this school or bust for her. Thats her mindset.
They do one hell of a job advertising for their school, thats for sure. I think they have my daughter totally brainwashed. Maybe my ex as well.
Hell, yes! You are one of her parents, aren’t you?
Apparently not. But you should be!
Look at the nine pages of effort all of the rest of us have put into this - and we’re all total strangers to your daughter. It’s not like it would take much effort on your part to put together a very concrete list of affordable schools. Just go back through this thread and follow the links that everyone else has provided for you. All you’d have to do is spend a couple of hours putting together the list. Is that really too much to ask of you???
I get that you’re pissed, but I thought the point of this thread was to find solutions . . . not just to complain. If that’s all you want to do, count me out.
@dodger. I think you misunderstand. It is not now JUST MY JOB AND MY JOB ONLY to figure this out for her because I refuse to cosign an absurd loan and don’t want her 80k in debt.
I also meant I’m not looking for ways to make it work WITH THIS PARTICULAR COLLEGE and was actually echoing what another poster said about quitting trying to make it work with this particular school.
You took snippets of my post entirely out of context.
Anyway, thanks everyone so much for your help. Tons of good info in this thread. I have taken notes down on alot of what has been mentioned here. Thanks so much!!!
Come back and update us later.
Just regarding post #121. Fifteen Semester hours at Columbus State Community College costs $2038.95 for in-state students. That’s roughly $8K for a 2-year degree. This is a highly respected CC that commonly feeds into OSU, which has an amazing art dept. and costs roughly $11K in-state for a full year.
A total of $30K for a 4-year art degree from a great institution. I understand that she feels CC is “garbage,” but she is simply wrong about that. I feel badly for you, OP, that she and her mom can’t see what is so obvious to everyone else.
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mom2collegekids.......Thanks for that info. I didn't even think of that. So basically with th 15k check in mind my ex would have to cosign two loans for 17500. Or 10k for the first year and 25k for the second.
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I guess either way it would be on her to cosign anything. But like I said, it still doesnt get rid of the huge debt my D is going to have. It would be less but still quite a lot.
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This is the concern IF granny pays $15k upfront…
The ex will then only have to borrow $10k for the first year (and may barely qualify)
Then, the second year will come around, and the ex may not qualify or her husband will have changed his mind.
Your mom would be out $15k for nothing.
I would offer the $15k for the SECOND year only. The ex would have to pay ALL $25k for the first year, and she’d have to pay $10k for the second year.
That will expose any problems.
Also, I don’t know how much your CS checks are for, but remind them that those will continue, so 24 months of support is probably worth at least the remaining $10k anyway.
She has plenty of options.
- See if she can find another loan coaigner...beside you.
- Take a gap year and apply to colleges with decent art programs that are affordable. Start by looking in her state of residence. Look also where the second parent resides. Clearly, neither of these options was explored in a timely fashion for this application round.
- See if she can get a gopher job at an advertising firm. Maybe someone there will take her under their wing and mentor her...and help her create an outstanding portfolio so that her options next year are broader.
- Get a job, and earn save money to pay for this school herself. Yes, it's going to take some time. But maybe mom and step dad will allow her to live with them for free.
Since you said you would contribute in the amount of child support, put that a,out of money in a 529 account which will be used for educational expenses when the time comes.
- attend the local community college with the goal of transferring to a four year school to finish the bachelors degree. Talk immediately to the advisor in charge of transfers to see which schools have articulation agreements with the college.
Lots of options. Trouble is, they are not the ONE option the student wants.
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Just regarding post #121. Fifteen Semester hours at Columbus State Community College costs $2038.95 for in-state students. That’s roughly $8K for a 2-year degree. This is a highly respected CC that commonly feeds into OSU, which has an amazing art dept. and costs roughly $11K in-state for a full year.
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I wonder if that is close to the mom’s home?
If so, maybe the dad could talk her into going there for one year, see if she truly likes doing this sort of thing “full time”, and then if she does well and still likes it, then do the Granny Plan.
Has the OP said what “talents” this girl has displayed so far to even somewhat justify this expense??? Is her mom simply going by “my daughter wants this”???
We often see kids “think” that they will want a certain career, but once they start training for it, they often either find that they had “romanced” the idea of what it would be like and they don’t like the reality or they find that it is much harder than they thought.
Either way…MOM NEEDS TO PAY / Borrow first.
also…if mom says that she will borrow first, then make sure she does and gets qualified and that money arrives at the school…before you hand over $7500 of granny’s money.
I know a mom who “trusted” her ex when he said that he’d pay his half of their child’s school. The mom paid her half, the dad “claimed” to have paid his half (mom didn’t think to check the school’s portal), then around Halloween, the student learns that he still has a big outstanding bill. Dad has no mean to pay or borrow. Mom has to borrow to cover “his half” so that son can finish the semester and get his transcript so he can transfer to a cheaper school. Ugh.
I would not trust this situation because they haven’t been upfront with you in several key areas.
I apologize for the misunderstanding . . . and I’m glad it was a misunderstanding! I think you probably still need to do more than your fair share of the work on this, just because no one else is willing to, but that’s just how parenting goes sometimes.
This student may not have the grades to go to a traditional school. Community colleges usually don’t have high standards, but some popular programs are harder to get into.
@maintainin, one advantage many of us have is that we WERE 18 year old girls, or we had them in our homes. You probably never had one in your home and you don’t know what entitled, dramatic things they can be. She will be mad, she will be pouty, she will be crying her eyes out. When did she find this gem of a school? A month ago? When did she discover her calling to be an advertising exec? Does she even have a big portfolio to show? This will all blow over, but your relationship might be a little better if you offer some solutions.
Based on the local CC mentioned by the OP Columbus state would be about 2 hours away. The local CC is a good one (Edison) as is are a couple of other close by (Sinclair and Clarke).
Sinclair Community College has an AA in Graphic Design, which the OP’s daughter was interested in.
I am worried that your daughter would go to school for a year and then not be able to afford it. Her granny is doing her a disservice. If she needs to transfer, she would not qualify for most colleges merit based programs (which only give them to freshman.) If she waited a year, she could still receive substantial merit at other schools.
She should know:
“Employment of graphic designers in newspaper, periodical, book, and directory publishers is projected to decline 16 percent from 2012 to 2022. However, employment of graphic designers in computer systems design and related services is projected to grow 35 percent over the same period. With the increased use of the Internet, graphic designers will be needed to create designs and images for portable devices, websites, electronic publications, and video entertainment media. (Source: O.O.H. ’13-‘14)” (https://www.rit.edu/emcs/programoverviews/home/art-crafts-design-and-graphic-communications/item/graphic-design-bfa)
Does the program she like offer interactive design? RIT New Media Design: http://cias.rit.edu/schools/design/undergraduate-new-media-design
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She should take a gap year and further develop her portfolio - better art = better merit $;
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My big other idea; for this summer, please pay for a month of a pre-college at an art school which offers design - many have them. This would show your support for a relatively small investment - go on a little trip taking her there, or picking her up at the end when there is a show - you could say that she needs to see other options - have her explore different types of graphics (Motion Graphics/Design, - there are so many different ways to go in the field now, that your daughter is truly limiting herself and her future; Ringling had a great summer program for my daughter - RIT has a small one - lots of art colleges have them;
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If you can, visit a few of the more affordable art colleges together - I recommend Universities that also have excellent art schools, in order to help with the costs. They tend to give more. We have visited a number of graphics programs.
My D will be going to RIT (Rochester Institute of Technology) College of Imaging Arts and Sciences; https://www.rit.edu/overview/cias
their facilities are amazing, and their online portfolios are great - they also have excellent merit as well as need based aid - they didn’t meet our need, but they were generous compared to the other art schools (which all gave some sort of merit.)
Show her the money; this chart from RIT shows the Co-Op and recent graduate salaries - search for Graphic Design and New Media Design (both have strong graphics/motion graphics programs as well, according to their site; https://www.rit.edu/emcs/oce/employer/salary
https://www.rit.edu/emcs/programoverviews/home/art-crafts-design-and-graphic-communications/item/graphic-design-bfa gives you an overview of their graphics program - scroll down to see a list of their hiring partners. RIT has a lot of connections.
Their New Media Design program is for graphics design for tablets and the like - design for interactivity. That is a growing field. Have your daughter look at those salaries; https://www.rit.edu/emcs/programoverviews/home/art-crafts-design-and-graphic-communications/item/new-media-design-bfa
I’ll bet her choice school does not offer that major. I am sure that more schools contain such helpful charts.
Has she looked at Laguna College of Art and Design? That is another school which has an excellent program - it is very small, but they have great connections. Their Motion Design is tops (along with Ringling.) They also give chunks of merit - the better the portfolio, the higher the merit. They are fairly reasonable because they are so small.
Also, my daughter met a 28 year old going to school at Ringling - he worked and saved for years to be able to go there.
If your daughter works really hard this year on her portfolio, perhaps interning at an ad house, having a great pre-college portfolio experience, she could score some real merit aid. Last, my daughter, who applied to graphics programs, had quite a few people reviewing her portfolio tell her to do more figure drawing. There are places all over which offer evening figure drawing experiences for a nominal fee. There is a list of classes here: http://www.artmodelbook.com/figure-drawing-directory.htm
I am sorry your Ex has supported this nonsense. For profit schools really only care about the profit. It sounds as if your D hasn’t visited much else (I haven’t read the entire thread - I just saw this and I needed to post and be off - sorry if I missed that.) You could come out of here looking good if you spend the time to research more art schools for her, know that many don’t give that much aid, I really suggest looking at Laguna and RIT. If you supported her this year so she could volunteer/intern, develop her portfolio, do more figure drawing, she could do much better for herself in the long run going to school elsewhere. I can’t say enough about the huge amount of resources that RIT has.
Sorry for going on. My husband is a commercial artist, and it can really be on again/off again. You don’t want to do that with debt. If you want to PM me, please feel free.
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I am worried that your daughter would go to school for a year and then not be able to afford it. Her granny is doing her a disservice. I
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that’s why they should either have mom borrow all for the first year, and then do the granny plan the second year (with mom borrowing the balance).
The above would solve a few problems:
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It would expose whether mom and stepdad really intend (and are qualified) to borrow $25k+.
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It would protect Granny’s money from being blown on Year One, only to find out that mom and stepdad won’t/can’t borrow for Year Two.
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It would protect Granny’s money (and any debt that dad does decide to take on), if the daughter ends up not liking the program, the classes, or whatever, and ends up dropping out.
Not to be cynical, but the dad here has no idea how stable the mom’s second marriage is. The stepdad may be saying “Ok the dad can borrow the first year, and we’ll borrow the second year,” when he already knows that he’s exiting the household sometime soon (this is just a “what if”).
And as I mentioned earlier, if both parents borrow, and DD can’t make all the payments, what if she only makes payments on mom’s cosigned loans…and leaves the dad stranded?
There has been some speculation that the DD is going to “resent” the dad if he doesn’t co-sign these loans. Well, I strongly suspect that if the dad were to do this, that the DD won’t be able to afford to pay this debt back, and then the DD will be so embarrassed that she begged for these loans that she will minimize contact with dad ANYWAY. Think about it… after all this whining and declaring, do you think she’s going to be chummy, chummy during the years that dad gets stuck paying back those loans.
Actually, from the dad’s posts about his concerns about burdening his DD, he doesn’t seem to be aware that as a co-signer, if his DD doesn’t pay, then HE WILL BE FORCED to pay. I’m not sure he realizes that.
@mom2collegekids. I do realize that as a consigner I would be forced to pay. Hence the reason I(as well as my mom) I am not cosigning anything. I’m not. At all.
I do believe that my ex and her husbands marriage is strong. But I do believe that he and possibly others on her side are not onboard with this. For some reason “they just don’t have the balls” to say no. And the “truth test” I guess you could call it my mom is throwing out there by offering to write a 15k check. It all goes back to me being the scapegoat.
This site is amazing. You all have been so helpful. I really appreciate the input.
Honestly, I’d be surprised if there weren’t people like this around the mother and stepfather having these same thoughts. The only difference is that it’s hard to really talk to someone who is in that ‘Dream School’ fugue. It’s like attacking someone’s religion.
There are probably people who are hearing these great plans to borrow $50,000 of tuition and who knows how much they’ll need to get set up in this town (living expenses) and smiling brightly and nodding while at the same time thinking, “Thank God my kid isn’t doing that!” Who is going to stand up and say that’s a bad idea? It’s not their money and it’s not their business. Even if someone did point out that it’s not a good plan, they probably wouldn’t tell someone else about that.
I think your daughter will appreciate your firm stance later on, if not right now. This is an off and on industry at least when you’re first starting out (maybe it gets better later?) and your daughter will have so much more flexibility if she doesn’t have those huge payments. Unlike federal student loans, private student loans don’t usually come with income-based repayment features. She has to pay what she owes even if she is doing an unpaid or low-paid internship trying to work her way up in some advertising agency somewhere. Hopefully she will come around to seeing that your position is really about your concern for her and her financial future rather than your objection to art.
@DmirtiR. I actually talked to my ex a couple of days before I started talking to my daughter today. I told her I understand that she is with her everyday and understand that it may be harder to say no. I laid out the reasons why I am totally against this situation and asked her if she feels pressured to do this. And if so she just needs to be firm and say no. She totally agreed with me that its a huge amount of debt to take on but then turned right around and basically fed me the line my daughter has been trying to sell me. That this is the only place my daughter wants to go to…a sob story about how my daughters life is somehow damaged if she doesnt go to this school. Basically my ex pretty much fed me the same line my daughter did today. She agreed with me on every point I laid out but always came back with a BUT…
Whats more telling is my ex told me her stepdad was totally against the idea and then went to the school and talked them and is now onboard. I dont know what to make of this. I’m thinking he might not be.
I mentioned before that everybody I’ve talked to personally and on this board pretty much thinks its a terrible thing to let happen. Everybody I have talked to and consulted with agrees this is just not reasonable. But yet my daughter is set on this. It upsets me that the people around her in Ohio arent in her ear telling her the same things. Worse yet is if they are they don’t have my back. I feel like I’m on my own. It’s like i’m on the hook for all of this.