Love this, @DmitriR - it’s SO true!!!
@maintainin the best way to keep from coming across as the party of “No” on this one is to invite her to show you what she loves about art and design. Perhaps that can be something that you two are able to discuss in person later this month. What are some of her favorite pieces that she has worked on? Which designers does she admire? This is probably new information to you - and fascinating as well. What art museums or galleries should you visit together? She must have some ideas on that.
IOW, she needs to show what she knows. Not that you should point that out to her 
But you can show her your genuine interest, as well as help her develop a deeper love for it herself (rather than have it be something that she and a friend got into their heads to do). What? You know nothing about art school? Join the club - there are many parents in that boat. Thank goodness for the internet and for CC in particular (check out the forum on visual art majors).
And yes, she might throw it all back in your face. One needn’t be a divorced parent to experience that lovely little gesture. That’s just part of the fun of being a parent in general.
One thing is clear - no intelligent investor is going to fork over thousands of dollars out of guilt or in response to a “don’t you trust me” line. And you are an investor. As am I in my kid. The dividends are huge and intangible - their sense of well being, their independence and ability to make their way in the world totally impact our happiness as parents - but tangible as well in that at a minimum no one wants their adult kid back at home with no job, no benefits and no hope. The investor must have good reasons for forking over cash or taking on the responsibility of a loan. You’ve already done your research and learned that you have EXCELLENT reason to reject this request. And she knows where you stand. It’s now up to you to go the extra step or two and improve your relationship around her interests and her plans for the future. And don’t forget - she is an adult now (or soon will be). And she is GOING to make mistakes and experience the consequences. Whether you want her to or not. And whether you and she are talking or not.
Edit/Update: just read your last post. Again, someone is speaking for Step-Dad. Has Step-Dad actually volunteered his own opinion to you? If not, his thoughts as represented by someone else (who probably does NOT have an unbiased opinion on the matter) don’t mean much.
We get that there’s a communications issue between exes- and some outrage.
But some are trying to refocus this on your relationship with your own child. And on how to move forward and help her.
We don’t know the financial facts here. There have been other threads where one ex defended his or her stand and we only get that side. We know you said No to this proposition and we agree it doesn’t sound like a good deal. Done.
But what about your relationship with your own daughter and the positives you can now influence?
All the who said what/when, the step’s true opinion, a daughter’s begging, etc, are now not as important, imo, as what you do next. She’s your child.
I’m sorry nobody in your daughter’s life is supporting you, @maintainin. I think, at this point, I’d actively end the conversation about this school. Anytime it’s brought up I’d say it’s already been discussed and the answer is no, then start talking about some of the other schools you’re researching. The no has to be firm. Your daughter, ex, and the stepdad all know why you’re saying no. The key is to say it and stop talking. Don’t continue giving your reasons (they all know them) and don’t be drawn into a discussion if they go on the offensive (accuse you of not believing in her, etc.).
Send her links to affordable colleges (some near you and some near your ex so your daughter has places to go visit) and get her talking about their programs. You need to calmly redirect the conversation so your daughter has the opportunity to move on to what she can do, not dwell on what she can’t. If you can arrange to tour some local colleges when she visits you this month, that would be a great opportunity to help her move on.
Agree with Dimitri. I have friends and neighbors and co-workers who are ever so proud of whatever academic plan they’ve cooked up for little Sally or Roger, and the folks who know them in real life can only say “Wow, that’s great”. Are you really going to tell a colleague “you are nuts for raiding your 401K to pay for Hofstra when your kid could go to a SUNY for half the price?” No. Are you going to tell your brother-in-law “Please don’t take out a private loan to bridge the gap so your precious munchkin can go to Adelphi since he’s turning his nose up at Baruch?”
There are lots of people paying full freight at second tier colleges. If you can afford it without blinking an eye- go for it. If you can’t- and are paying the equivalent of Yale tuition for University of New Haven via crippling loans, people in your actual life are not going to sit you down and tell you that your plan is nuts. They will congratulate you on finding a college for your solid B- student and then tell themselves “thank god that’s not me”.
The kids with creative aspirations are harder of course. But for the performing arts, serious musicians, artists, poets… life crippled by debt means NO TIME to pursue your art because your survival job takes over. Do you really think that a for-profit institution which basically exploits the federal loan system for profit is going to launch your kid into a very competitive field?
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I do believe that my ex and her husbands marriage is strong. But I do believe that he and possibly others on her side are not onboard with this. For some reason “they just don’t have the balls” to say no. And the “truth test” I guess you could call it my mom is throwing out there by offering to write a 15k check. It all goes back to me being the scapegoat.
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I agree that the stepdad isn’t totally on board with this which is why they want YOU to pay first. Do not fall for that.
If you want to go ahead with the Granny Plan, then PLEASE split that into TWO YEARS (not $15k for first year…NO NO NO). Make THEM have to borrow at least $18k or so the first year (this will expose whether the SF is really on board…or not). And make sure that the loan is approved and processed BEFORE contributing that first $7500.
I wouldn’t mention to them the source of that Granny money. Just state that you will provide $7500 per year for only two years for schooling, plus continue your child support payments.
BTW…you live far from them and have limited contact. You really do not know how strong or not strong their marriage is. Heck, some spouses think their marriages are strong, only to be surprised with divorce papers. That happened to one of my sisters-in law…she got served at work…total surprise (and what a nasty way for her H to do that).
A little levity is in order at this point:
http://www.theonion.com/video/nations-parents-release-annual-ranking-of-top-50-p-35204
I guess I’m wondering why this conversation wasn’t had six months ago. Maybe it was (or maybe it was explained upthread), or maybe everyone just kicked the can down the road because it was too hard to deal with. Perhaps part of the issue is that OP’s D’s friends mostly all have exciting plans for next year, and she is trying to catch up. I don’t know. But it is obvious this conversation is going nowhere with her and her mom.
I’d give her appropriate options, such as a year at CC, fully paid, to prove that she can do the work. Or a gap year for her to earn, say, $10k toward her tuition at SAA while you and her mom do some saving as well. These are fair options. The school will be there next year if she really wants to go, and her life won’t be ruined.
@MidwestDad3 I don’t think the DD even knew about this school several months ago. It seems to have been a more recent find.
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I'd give her appropriate options, such as a year at CC, fully paid, to prove that she can do the work. Or a gap year for her to earn, say, $10k toward her tuition at SAA while you and her mom do some saving as well. These are fair options. The school will be there next year if she really wants to go, and her life won't be ruined.
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These are very good suggestions. I think that others have also suggested that she do at least one year at a CC just to see if she truly likes this sort of work.
Can you imagine after all these loans that the student would suddenly say, “oops, I don’t like this kind of work”. (reminds me of someone I know who borrowed a TON for her DD’s wedding…and then 8 months later, the DD filed for divorce.)
You’re right…the school will still be there next year.
@deb922 FullSail went to my kids school (we are in PA) and must have done one heck of a presentation because several of her classmates have decided to go there. I know one dad is not on board and had been “dragging” (my D’s word) his kid to other schools to visit. But a lot like OP’s kid, seems like these ones have decided FullSail is their dream school.
And doesn’t Full Sail sound like it would be picturesque, green quad, beautiful people, the wind blowing through blond hair? It’s on I-4 in downtown Orlando.
I just wanted to add that it is clear to me that the D has talent that will benefit her if advertising is her future - she is VERY persuasive, and has no problem completely ignoring everything contrary to her goal. I have a strong feeling that in 5-10 years or so, your D will have found a different path to success, and hopefully you both will look back at this with humor and love. As the song says, “You’re gonna miss this”
I also LOVE granny’s thoughts on this - clearly showing she wants to help her own son and granddaughter. I am curious about your former mother-in-law’s reaction - is she still around or a part of your D’s life? Our parent’s generation tends to look at personal debt very differently than your ex-wife does.
And to OP, just because you didn’t go to college yourself doesn’t mean you are not right in this situation. And FWIW, thank you very much for your service to our country.
As tough as it is, I am glad for your daughter’s sake you are willing to be “the fall guy” if completely necessary, as you are putting her best interests first.
Hugs.
My D was at first very excited about Full Sail. They show up at the HS college fairs. Not sure what happened to it but she eventually stopped talking about it once we began to research the NASAD schools. By then she was way too busy fulfilling the expectations we set for her to be able to attend art school in general. Could be that the Full Sail’s and the SAA’s hit these college fairs and grab the kids who have an interest in art and design but not the knowledge base start looking elsewhere at BFA programs.
Honestly I blame the GC - what was she thinking letting a for profit present in school?
Anyway, good luck to the OP. Stand firm and be the bad guy for now - a few years down the road and she will thank you for it.
I’m not sure the GC can control who presents and who doesn’t…sort of discriminatory possibly.
But…this student should have been researching options for post high school a year ago…not recently. And that research should have been for a variety of options to reach her career goal…not just one school.
I’ve heard nothing about a fabulous portfolio, any work used for advertising even on a volunteer basis, nada. All I’ve heard is the kid wants to do this.
And as noted, the school will be there a year from now…and the OPs daughter may even find a better option or two to consider…if she researches this well.
Lots of good suggestions to follow up. Unless discussing other options, IMHO, it is better to say “we have discussed XXX to death and it is not affordable nor is it academically the best alternative. As a parent, I have to use my best judgement with the resources I am providing to be used for your education.”
Unless mother and Step-father, or other source facilitates, XXX will not happen.
I suspect some of the friends’ plans for going there and getting an apartment may be falling apart anyway.
If she is not working this summer, advise her you will pay for her to take some classes at local CC. If she is a good student, she will hopefully continue to be a good student.
I really do like the idea of an intensive pre-college program which was mentioned upthread. What better way for daughter to test her commitment to art school? And what better way for a parent to demonstrate their willingness to help her discern this? Much, much cheaper than a full year of art school (ALL stand-alone art programs are expensive). Precollege has the wonderful advantage not only of producing some great works that can be included in the portfolio and perhaps used to get merit aid or prize money down the road, but also of letting the student figure out quite quickly if art school ISN’T going to be the right choice. My D did AP art this year but she still thinks her pieces from last summer were some of her very best work because she was dedicated to the task and not trying to balance art class with her responsibilities in six other subjects.
Precollege might be a great way to arrive at “middle ground” on this topic and show support and willingness to help her develop as an artist if that’s what she truly wants. And she’ll receive amazing training and feedback on her work. Is there a downside to this option?
We can only do what we think is best for our kids, even if they resent it, and us.
My oldest was ticked off no end because she couldn’t go away to college. She didn’t have the grades, we didn’t have the money, and I was NOT going to borrow a single penny, especially with the self centered attitude.
Throw in an older unemployed BF and it has not been pleasant in our home for quite some time. HOWEVER, I did a lot of research for her on programs that were affordable locally, bought her a used car, gave her some slack on the BF; she got into a PTA program and is doing very well.
I think it is only because she knows she needs a good job so she can move in with the BF. She barely speaks to her father. Yes, it is sad, but it is what it is.
I hope one day she will mature enough to appreciate what we were able to do for her, but if she doesn’t that is on her. My main goal was for her to be able to support herself in the future, and she is achieving that.
You need to do what will work for you, while helping your daughter the best you can. It’s all any of us can do for our kids.
Just throwing this in here Re post 116 about Full Sail (for-profit).
I get how your D wants to go to this school…
We visited Full Sail when first looking into computer animation. It was a HARD SELL. Won’t call it a scam but it seemed to me that what they were selling was shiny technology rather than education. Think of how time shares in condos are sold or the best used car salesman–hard to walk out the door without signing. They literally put on close to a theatrical production to sell you. My D at the time was enthralled and thought it was perfect. I’m sure that your D and probably mom see this advertising school in the same light. And I’m sure they got the same hard sell tactics. You can leave the information session thinking “life is over if I don’t go here.”
Fortunately, Full Sail was only the first stop and then I did the major homework researching where top companies hire from, the actual education received, expected salaries, career placement. Full Sail dropped off the list immediately (but it sure looked like fun while we were there!)
Your ex and D haven’t done the research but someone needs to.
CC is pretty good coming up with real life advice and options if given enough information.
I’ll second or third the pre-college experience for your D. They can be expensive but WELL worth it. A LOT less expensive than signing up for a semester with no knowledge of how much you really like something. Plus for your D it would open her eyes to a lot of new possibilities past the obsession she has with this school.
A good program will allow a student to really taste what art school is all about and see if it’s something they really want to pursue plus develop portfolio material. And get professional advice. Some students find that they don’t love computers or 24/7 art as much as they thought they would. You know the parents of those kids saved a TON of money in the long run!