Any chance you guys have an opportunity to visit Wellesley or Smith? The women’s colleges are an admissions “bargain” in the sense that they offer many of the same things that attracts kids to Yale, Brown, etc. but are easier to get admitted to (aprox. half the competition is out of the admissions pool and many young women don’t get excited by single sex education any more).
Your D sounds great!
Is there any chance that the school was reluctant to allow her to take some of the honors courses as a URM? I don’t like to borrow trouble. It might just be ordinary gatekeeping at the school since you said that they limit honors classes in general. However, with one of my URM daughters, I had to push very hard to get her middle school to let her take the accelerated 7th/8th math course. The school was going to put her in the regular Algebra 1 and it took a lot of back and forth with her 6th grade math teacher and insistence on my part to get her placed in the higher track --she did very well as I knew she would.
Different school, but my rising senior at a private school asked the math department if she could take a math class this summer and then a placement test in August because she wanted to take Cal BC her senior year. Right now, she is signed up to double in math with Cal AB + the school’s equivalent of AP Stats. She was denied permission to take the placement exam at the end of the summer, which is fine, but she claims the school has routinely allowed her (non-URM) friends pursue outside classes or outside tutoring during the summer (and even during academic year) in order to take the appropriate placement test for the next level course. Note this is a kid who has gotten all As in her math courses at the school and hit the 99th percentile on her math SAT (and received “grand honors” when she took the Johns Hopkins CTY tests though the school doesn’t know this). While I pushed for her older sister’s middle school, I told her to let go of the summer math course idea given she is already plenty busy in July and August.
But I will always sort of wonder if there was some bias involved with both girls especially my rising senior (assuming she is correct and some friends asked the same question and were told go for it by the math department).
My opinion. Your child should only ED to a school that is her very top choice bar none. I realize some kids want to maximize acceptance to competitive schools. But in my opinion, an ED application should on’y be done to THE school that is a student’s top choice.
Yes. I think that this is exactly right.
However, it also sounds @GirlDad like your daughter is doing very well. I think that whatever you have done is working.
I am personally a big fan of the approach that is suggested in the “applying sideways” blog on the MIT admissions web site. As I understand it, the recommended approach is for the student to do what is right for them, and do it very well. This is the approach that got me accepted to MIT. It is also the approach that got my wife accepted to an Ivy League graduate program, and our older daughter accepted to a highly ranked DVM program (where she is currently half way through). However, what each of us did is entirely different. We each just did what was right for us.
Also keep in mind that there are a lot of very good universities and LACs where a student can get an excellent education. Keep your budget in mind and make sure that your daughter applies to some solid safeties and she should do very well.
And I am impressed by a 36 ACT score.
I might add that in our family other than me personally we haven’t pushed for “highest ranked” undergraduate schools and have instead looked for a good fit (that was within budget). We have nonetheless done very well in terms of graduate school acceptances. At this point we probably still have one to go and someday we might see how this comes out.
So WashU is super hard to get into.
Look at your schools avg for the last 3 year’s and see where they have had success in. Her chances getting into Brown etc are small but don’t let her live with regrets.(everyone’s chances are small).
But I would use the odds in your favor with where kids at your school got into. There are histories with colleges with certain high schools.
But in the end it sounds like she will have many choices. As they say, cast a wide net. Love all the schools you apply to or don’t apply to them. Need those safeties. Many end up going to them and why you need to love all the schools you apply to.
Re: Ivy admissions and T20. If your daughter doesn’t get admitted…or does…she will never know why.
Your daughter attends a top private school. In the vast majority of cases, the school counselors at these schools have a very good pulse on where students are likely to get accepted. So…ask them.
The very good news…there are hundreds of colleges in this country where your daughter would be a welcome and would get an excellent college education that are not Ivy or Top 20.
@blossom unfortunately not. She has had enough after 6 years in all girls small environment. My sister is a Smith grad so we are very familiar with the “sister ivies”. The NESCAC schools are dropping off the list as well because of location and size. We have been impressed with the Lehigh Valley Schools, UVA and W&M joint degree program with St Andrews. We as a family are trying to get the Ivies off of our mind but daughter really loves Yale PPE, the vibe there and learning environment. If we could find something similar to Yale that would be ideal.
Not saying these are like Yale but this article makes the comparison of some, elite and one not elite.
What article?
yes please share link @tsbna
Brilliant - thanks @thumper1
What I get for multi tasking. You already have many but the Wheaton mention stood out to me.
For people who like Yale and Brown, there is a kind of standard list of other universities to consider that seem to be on the same branch of the college family tree, and still very selective, but not quite as selective.
You’ve already been discussing one of those, William & Mary. Good choice!
I didn’t see mentions of two others, though–Wake Forest and Rochester. This is just my two cents, but I see those schools as more in the same family of Yale, Brown, and William & Mary than, say, UVA or Boston College. Not inherently better, but maybe more of a better fit for someone who likes those particular other schools.
There are a lot of LACs I would also name, but it sounds like she is more looking for a university experience (which is fine).
I was thinking about this last night. So many look for “elite” names.
But I was having a discussion about Kalamazoo with someone who is going and they have a high PhD rate (they told me) but there is so much 1:1 mentoring vs. a larger college.
And it got me starting to think - are some of those type schools - the Depauws, Oberlins, Kenyon, Wheaton (not sure if Il or MA but it’s #39 of all schools when accounted for school size), Hendrix, Earlham, St. Olaf, etc. These are all ahead of bigger names like Middlebury (according to College Transitions).
Are some of these maybe better choices for those kids who need smaller or who want more attention?
Maybe they don’t have the name sizzle of a Yale or WUSTL - but might they actually be better fits - even moreso than the bigger LAC names - in that if they are that far above the student body, that the attention they might get could be phenomenal.
And of course, they’d like get a great deal financially too which is always welcome.
And I’m surprised more don’t look “deeper” but again, everyone is so name hungry and that’s likely why they don’t by many.
I think that is 100% correct. I think generic rankings of national universities are pretty pointless to begin with, but generically ranking LACs where the whole point is not to get a generic experience is particularly crazy to me.
To be a bit understanding, though–there are SOOOO many colleges! So many variables to keep track off. It can be completely overwhelming, particularly to start. And so I get why people fall back on generic rankings as a filtering device, just to make it all seem more manageable.
But hopefully what we are doing here is going to help the OP maybe do a little bit better than that in the end. The daughter seems to have a fairly clear vision of what she would most want. Collectively, we can use that to help the OP then explore deeper in those directions–and very much in a way where generic rankings drop away as a major consideration.
@NiceUnparticularMan and @tsbna44. For better or worse Daughter is fixated on “Brand” (there is certainly some merit to that for example if she chooses a likely pathway of big 5 consulting) but less important if she wants to do a JD/MBA. All in all she feels the name brand schools will give better options in the future with connections through classmates and alumni networks. The LACs provide the learning environment and access to faculty and resources that she is looking for but are too small and too rural. Ideally a mid size research university that has the feel of liberal arts in a suburban/urban environment appeal most to her. Outside of the Yale and Brown, schools like BC(my alma mater), WM, Lehigh, WashU have jumped out as schools fitting that vibe for the most part. Georgetown would be on the list if she wanted to stay local. I think Emory, Tulane, Vandy would all be good options if the South was an option. Daughter will REA to Yale so we will know pretty quickly what kind of a pivot we need to take( assuming a denial, tough part comes if she is deferred) Thanks for all the input.
thats a good link. We hadnt given CMU any consideration as we have ruled out Pitt because of the too Urban campus. Is CMU more suburban feeling? Trying to get Northwestern(campus looks incredible and Chicago is awesome) on the list as well but they have a 7% acceptance. We arent looking at Wake because of south and other weird reasons. We may take a look at Richmond but I get the sense that it is a bit too Homogonous.
CMU not more suburban feeling.
I just keep reading about all brutal names to get into 
But I know you had SUNY B on the original list.
Hopefully names - maybe not these exact - but like a Brandeis (and you have Lehigh) will mix in.
W&M is awesome - but it’s a strain for sure from OOS - not easy.
OK - looking forward to see how it goes.
Based on her likes… have you looked at Grinnell?
W&M seems likely based on where she charts on SCIOR. No one with her stats has been denied in last 3 years from her school and her interests and ECs align well with academics there. Lehigh, Lafayette and Bucknell appear to be close to safety according to SCIOR so we are fairly comfortable there will be excellent options outside of TOP30 schools. Now it is findong the best fit with the best chance of getting in for the reaches.
@beebee3 disappointing on CMU as it is a wonderful school.