<p>and I think ID should stop beating himself up for pushing Davidson with his daughter; I mean what was the worst case scenario? That she might have attended a college full of vibrant, intelligent, upper middle class kids in an intellectually stimulating atmosphere on a tolerant, welcoming campus recognized as having the best 'quality of life' among US colleges. Not liked she dodged a bullet or anything. Give it a rest.</p>
<p>Some threads are designed to look beneath the Princeton Review or US News or Fiskes.....write ups. There are plenty of "I love school x" threads to post on. It would be nice to see some of the discussions that uncover the "warts" to progress without disentigrating in to pro or anti school x. No school is perfect. I would suspect that Davidson denizens might want to add how things are changing on campus. But the conversations always seem to polarize with the first defensive comment and go downhill. :(</p>
<p>Hubbellgardner : "The % of Jewish students is low at Davidson, as it is at most southern colleges, simply because most Jews live in the NE and prefer to go to school near where they live." Please tell me you're not serious.</p>
<p>just facts: >90% of college students attend college within a 3-hour drive of their home; >90% of the US jewish population live in the middle-atlantic and northeast US; you do the math.</p>
<p>I always been puzzled by the fact that people who decry discrimination are so prone to use labels. </p>
<p>Should someone not look how the Board of Trustees interpret their bylaws in deciding the future of the school? Do we know FOR SURE that elected non-christian will see their roles as being protectors of non-christian's interest. I think it is a fallacy to expect elected officials to always vote or make decisions along the lines of faith, race, or socio-economic background. </p>
<p>In my opinion, Hubbellgardener frames the issue with flawless logic, except that he overlooked that close to 2,000,000 jews (about 30% of entire Jewish population in the US) live in Florida and California. To his credit, there are probably fewer jews in North Carolina than in a block in New York, New Jersey, or Pennsylvania.</p>
<p>HG: Let's examine those "facts" for what they're worth and not in a vacuum. Sources, please.</p>
<p>Where to begin?</p>
<p>First of all, it isn't clear to me that this rule was targeted against Jews. I've read the original bylaws, and don't see any anti-semitic remarks. These rules could be about not allowing atheists on the board. Or not allowing Christians who don't hold an actual, active membership in a Christian church. </p>
<p>
[quote]
I have no problem with Notre Dame, Brandeis, Brigham Young, or Bob Jones University being as religious as they care to be. Of course, these schools are up front in their presentations, to the point where it was automatic to scratch them off the list as they are clearly geared towards a particular customer base.....</p>
<p>"If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, has only 3% non-Christian and 14% non-white students, it's probably a duck.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>There is a difference between curriculum and admissions practices, versus what the Trustees are supposed to look like. </p>
<p>Notre Dame, Liberty, BYU, et al have specific missions and doctrines that are going to impact the college classroom experience. They are closely tied to their church and this may influence what is taught, who teaches, what is allowed in residence halls, and so on. They are being "up front" about it because those church ties are a part of the daily life of the school. As you said, they have a customer base.</p>
<p>I have never heard anything that led me to believe the same is true at Davidson. They don't have a specific religious customer base. A lot of Presbyterian schools are like Methodist schools--it's an historical affiliation, one that has not had much modern influence on curriculum, pedagogy, or recruitment. </p>
<p>You've painted a real lose-lose scenario for Davidson. If Davidson tries to recruit a mix of students, including inviting (gasp!) Jews and nonwhites to apply, it's not being progressive, forward-minded or open (as we might otherwise conclude). It's being sneaky, you suggest. It's hiding something that alas, more dedicated parents should check into. Sorry, I'm not buying that, and I think it's unfair. </p>
<p>The composition of the student body is not sufficient evidence that a college discriminates. What is is applicant pool like? Does it have hundreds of non-Christians and non-whites that it is turning away? You'll find that many liberal arts schools have similar demographics. Many of them are trying to change that, but it can be challenging, for reasons that have nothing to do with bylaws. Davidson will likely do better than most given its deservedly strong reputation, although I suspect its location (rural, southern) will slow things somewhat because of student (and parent) perceptions.</p>
<p>[Edited to remove unnecessarily snarky comment]</p>
<p>Florida's jews tend not to be of college age, but retirees from the northeast and Californian's tend to go to college in California-same logic as for the northeast.</p>
<p>HBG: Sorry - my post wasn't clear. I was asking the source for your stat that 90% of college students attend within a 3 hr drive of their home. I suspect (though I'm just guessing - having seen neither the source nor the back-up to that stat) that the "college students" referred to might include all college-aged kids, giving a somewhat skewed result. For example, many kids attend local community colleges (likely an under 3 hr drive) or state universities (ditto - though less so - regarding drive time). I know little about Davidson, but assume that it's a private school and from the little I know, I understand that some pretty good stats are required to gain admission. Therefore, I don't think we're comparing apples and apples if you use a stat that doesn't reflect school choice/distance from home for top scoring kids attending private schools. Make sense? At the end of the day, I don't think it's distance that dictates the population at certain southern schools, much as I'd hazard a guess that, for example, you won't find a huge percentage of bible belt folks at Wesleyan. Not intending to start some flaming here - just giving my thoughts.</p>
<p>Doesn't it seem that the actions and decisions that generate much outrage are usually based on conservative or religious values. </p>
<p>If the fear of zealous indoctrination by colleges and universities ran along the lines of the religious political landscape, a good 30-40% of the population ( conservatives) should be decrying blatant discrimination. In the United States, higher education is infested by ultra-liberals, atheists, and social revolutionaries. Does that mean that the education received at the schools that have an overwhelmingy leftist administration and faculty is "dangerous"? I do not think so! At least, not as potentially dangerous as the student body!</p>
<p>schoolmarm: I understand your argument; yes, I was referring to the total college population, for whom the vast majority stay relatively close to home. As far as Jews at Davidson, you can only accept students that apply, and I think the average top performing jewish student would pick an IVY or top northeast LAC over Davidson for a myriad of reasons. But, not because there is discrimination, but there are regional differences that come into play.</p>
<p>schoolmarm, you raise a good point--Davidson does draw nationally, but I think its largest base is in the South. And that's going to naturally depress Jewish numbers because as I understand it, the Jewish population in the South (especially college-age) is smaller than it is elsewhere. </p>
<p>Many national liberal arts colleges retain a "regional" base although they gets apps and enrolls from all over.</p>
<p>I don't want to get embroiled in the debate, but here's some interesting data from the website of Hillel, the Jewish campus organization (hillel.org). </p>
<p>Re Brandeis' status as a "Jewish" university, in its prospective student guide, Hillel reports that over one-third of Brandeis' undergrads -- more than 1000 kids -- are not Jewish:</p>
<p>Brandeis University
Campus Information
School Web Address: <a href="http://www.brandeis.edu%5B/url%5D">http://www.brandeis.edu</a><br>
Public/Private: Private
Commuter Campus? No
Enrollment: Undergraduate Population: 3081
Graduate Population: 1801<br>
Jewish Enrollment: Jewish Undergraduate Population: 1900 (approx.)
Jewish Graduate Population: 500 (approx.) </p>
<p>The website has no information on the number of non-Jewish students at Davidson, which I believe means the college currently has no Hillel affiliation. When my daughter was looking at colleges (she is now a first-year at another LAC) the Hillel website reported that there were 25 Jewish students at Davidson. (I checked my old notes.)</p>
<p>For some reason I could not access the newspaper article that was cited, but assume it was pretty critical of Davidson. I recently ran accross an interesting study that ranks Davidson in the middle of the leading liberal arts schools this year in terms of attracting African American students, just behind Vasser and Smith and ahead of schools such as Oberlin, Byn Mawr, Bates, Trinity, Middlebury and Grinnell. </p>
<p>Of all the Southern schools, Emory has probably the most prominent percentage of Jewish students, most from the New York metro & Long Island area. Don't know the numbers, but they're a significant and influential force on the Emory campus -- and are comfortable there.</p>
<p>This thread's really taken off since I started it! Anyway, I was mostly wondering what kind of an effect it would have on the school FINANCIALLY. The article compared it to Duke University losing James Duke's support or UNC Chapel Hill losing John Morehead's support. Plus, other alumni might follow his example...Is this a gross exaggeration, or will it actually have an effect on the school? </p>
<p>RHD, sorry about the article. If you want to see it, you can create an free online account with the Charlotte Observer.</p>
<p>whatever the effect, it speaks volumes about the courage of the board to move forward on this, knowing the financial impact it could have on a small LAC like Davidson. But, I suspect other alumni and prominent families will make up the loss from the Belk family (Davidson is also a benefactor of the Duke fortune along with Duke University)</p>
<p>Hubbel:</p>
<p>Please don't get interesteddad going on that tobbacky stained "wealth".....:)</p>
<p>
[quote]
But, I suspect other alumni and prominent families will make up the loss from the Belk family.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>That's what I wanted to know. Thanks, hubbellgardner.</p>
<p>Mr. Alvarez is also a member of the board of trustees( he is from San Antonio and his daughters went to my high school), he donated the money to build the Alavarez student union at Davidson- to thank the college for the education it gave his daughter, there is plenty more where that came from.</p>