<p>As far as the regionalism goes, doesn't that label apply to most schools? I haven't researched it, but I think Stanford is 40% plus Californian, Pomona perhaps a higher percentage than that, etc. Maybe the Ivies are more evenly balanced but I always got the impression that the northeastern schools were also heavily weighted in terms of numbers to the northeast as well. I'm not taking a position mind you, I am just asking the question. </p>
<p>Davidson also has the strict honor code which has its proponents and its detractors--perhaps the Davidson student here can speak to that.</p>
<p>hmm, must be "Davidson appreciation day" here on CC.</p>
<p>Two comments: there is no 'weeding out' here of the premeds, other than the usual self-weeding out(eg "geez, I got a D in organic chemistry and a C- in Calculus, perhaps this isn't for me"); last year of the 18 premeds who applied to med school(out of a total class of around 400 students), 17 were accepted, and one was waitlisted(with a 2.8 GPA!!). Very supportive faculty, who are willing to help all along the way. Davidson is very good at identifying what medcom admission committees want-clinical experiences, bench research etc.. and making sure all of the bases are covered-that is why they are so successful.</p>
<p>As far as the honor code-who would want to be at a place where honor and integrity are not an important aspect of daily life?</p>
<p>Patient, you're right....for instance, the northeastern LAC's are filled with kids from the Mid-Atlantic and New England states....(even though their administrations would like to change that, I'm sure)</p>
<p>I do not really see why Davidson -or its eloquent defender- should need to defend its record on diversity. The school is what it is, and it does remarkably well in following its stated mission. What prospective applicants see as negative may very well be a big plus for others. It is all a matter of individual choices. One could not expect the same atmosphere at UC-Berkeley than at Duke - a bit of Red Square versus the "Plantation"!. </p>
<p>I find it remarkable that some posters might find the diversity record of Davidson deplorable, yet be great supporters of non-coed schools. I may be naive, but could a school that closes its doors to half the population be considered diverse. If diversity is the theme of the debate, why don't we compare Wellesley and Davidson? </p>
<p>JohnWesley, just a comment on "The Gatekeepers" ... I think that you must have read a different edition that contained many more chapters than the one I read for considering the book to be an "open book" about admissions at Wesleyan. While the collection of anecdotes were interesting, the book falls far short from unveiling great secrets. It is no different from other books in the genre: it tells us more about the adcoms' life and whimsical perceptions than about the "system".</p>
<p>HubbellG is describing the kind of things we picked up on the program. Those are the things that make people successful. Hubbell, do you think the students are overly, unhealthily competitive with each other (all pre-meds are somewhat competitive, I think, it is part of the beast). Does the program give advice and info to people who decide other aspects of health care are more for them (I understand you can't do nursing or PT, but what happens to the pre-med "drop-outs")? Seventeen successful out of 400 is a pretty good ratio, even if you allow that they may have started with as many as 100 wannabes - remember others may take a leave year, then apply as well</p>
<pre><code>I do not see any real cut-throat competitiveness amomgst the premeds that I know(my father describes his experiences as a premed at a large state university in the early 1970's where students would steal books from the library to keep others away from them..).
</code></pre>
<p>What happens to premeds who cant' quite cut the academic mustard( "They become lawyers", my dad jokes). I am not sure, Davidson has supported graduates for many years after graduation in their medical school application process; Dr. Putnam states he recently got one in after 5 years of trying, others can go into other health care related fields, others leave the pursuit all together, but if you really want it, the Davidson premed program stays with you as long as you want, provides guidance on how to improve your chances-eg take a graduate level chemistry course if you did poorly in your undergraduate one etcc.)</p>
<p>Thanks Hubbell, this is a small one woman crusade! Both promoting Davidson (I thought it was a great school, and was a little sad daughter chose otherwise, but she wanted to be in a different region of the US) and trying to get some info out about what getting into med school is about. I shake my head every time I read a kid posting "What's the best school for pre-med?", and some equally clueless kid posts back "Brand name school X", where the student will sit in a chemistry class with 250 other med school wannabes, graded on a curve! I want to scream - just save you money and go to State U, at least there will be a few engineers, chem majors, nurses, teachers, etc in that chemistry class, and not 500 kids in the pre-med society trying to get one person to write them a rec. Whew, I feel better, back to our regular schedule ;).</p>
<p>"The Gatekeepers" by Jacques Steinberg, is one of the very few books on admissions <em>not</em> written by someone who makes his living by writing about the subject. In other words, as a New York Times reporter who has since written about many other topics, he has no inherent interest in making jittery parents or their kids even more jittery so that they can go out and buy more of his books, subscribe to a testing service, or retain his personal services as an "admissions counselor".</p>
<p>Still, he clearly wanted to sell copies of his book (now in paperback) which is why he chose to focus on a dozen or so of the most complex cases. What you don't see is the fact that maybe half the class gets filled year after year with very little fuss or disagreement, mainly by dint of the applicant's board scores and gpa.</p>
<p>By "open book", I meant that Wesleyan was (and perhaps, still is) the only top twenty-five college or university to give a NYTimes reporter free rein to attend adcom meetings, to look over their shoulders, as it were, while they read files, argued about applicants and to generally follow them around everywhere. If there were a Wesleyan "conspiracy" to weed out Republicans or southerners, I'm sure that not only would Steinberg have picked up on it, he would have sold even more books by saying so.</p>
<p>This is not to say that the process is not flawed. Steinberg is quick to say in interviews that I've seen (one of them before an audience of Wesleyan prospective parents) that when it comes to the "problem" cases, the adcom's opinions can be deeply subjective. But, the remedy for that is the one that Wesleyan already has in place: a diverse staff that has a variety of life experience before coming to Wesleyan. This is why I felt the adcom biographies were among the most important parts of the book.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I find it remarkable that some posters might find the diversity record of Davidson deplorable, yet be great supporters of non-coed schools. I may be naive, but could a school that closes its doors to half the population be considered diverse. If diversity is the theme of the debate, why don't we compare Wellesley and Davidson?
[/quote]
Half of Davidson students are male. Can't recall the last time I saw an enrolled male student at Wellesley. Thus, Davidson is more diverse than Wellesley. </p>
<p>But wait, Wellesley reminds us to "Learn about Wellesley's multicultural campus". I guess Wellesley does not think males have culture; otherwise males would be part of their multicultural campus.</p>
<p>I will add one more ancedote about Davidson. I know someone who has a very liberal daughter - she grew up in California and was very much a "theater type" --- artsy, kind of flashy, very outgoing. Her mother fretted quite a bit when her daughter decided on Davidson, but the daughter had an absolutely wonderful 4 years there and made many, many friends that she has kept in touch with since graduation. Actually, her Mom recently mentioned Davidson to my daughter as a place where one is guaranteed of getting a great education, where the people are friendly, and where the sense of community is strong (all things my daughter is looking for).</p>
<p>Hubbellgardner, I have heard of schools that manipulate their med school acceptance rates by saying things like "all pre-med students" when they really mean something like "certified pre-meds that we have handpicked from this larger sample of students who applied to med school but without the imprimature of the Pre-Med committee". Or schools that deny the would-be applicant any favorable recommendations so the poor sod is reduced to rubble prior to actually applying. Any of that happening? (I wouldn't think so-but I have to ask.)</p>
<p>Curmudgeon, I can't answer your question because I don't know the answer but I don't think that is the entire point of this discussion. People don't go to Davidson just to get in to med school, though it does have an unsually detail-oriented advising program in that respect. The larger point would seem to be that Davidson is a small school, less known in some regions than some of its northern peers, and it works very hard to provide a superior academic and human environment for its students and community. I doubt there is any school that is absolutely blemish-free, but I think Davidson can probably withstand scrutiny as well as msot other schools and it seems a shame to end this thread on your unhappily cynical note about a school that as far as I am aware from most of your posts you may not have first-hand experience with.</p>
<p>Curmudge, that's one question I was trying to ask, but you stated it much better. What high school students often don't understand about the med school admissions process is the importance and therefore the power of that "pre-med committee". It's a very subtle distinction between honest advisement of students and handpicking, I'm not sure there is any way to really assess the situation outside any school. Also, I don't know how you ever know as a student or parent looking at a college, if the people who are not "picked" really have an honest chance at med school - part of what makes a good program is how they handle/support/advise the students whose grades/scores are not quite high enough, or maybe they spend some time in a medical setting and have doubts about whether or not medicine is for them. After all, at any college, there will be many more students who start out as freshmen pre-meds, than final applicants. The kids who change after that first chem test usually land on their feet with the help of parents, career center, etc. It is the junior who has the academic creds, but maybe didn't enjoy his shadowing experience in the hospital, that needs real support and honest advice to make the best decision for him.
My strong feelings, I guess, come from being a parent and MD, the kids see it as "which school is the most likely to get me in", I see it as "which people will help my child make the best decision for her". How in the world can you or the child figure that out as an outsider?</p>
<p>mattmom, what are you talking about? I was not cynical. I was asking a question that at least one other person found interesting . A standard I'm fairly sure your last post will have trouble meeting. Why so harsh?To ME? </p>
<p>LOL. I re-read my post. I thought I had protected myself from being misunderstood by saying that I did not think it was occurring, just wanted to be sure. How is that cynical? LOL. Ding me when I'm being bad, not when I'm trying to find out info about one of my favorite schools.</p>
<p>Mattmom, the majority of the last few posts have been about the med school acceptance rate. There was no attempt on my part to divert the thread from how it existed when I got here. I'd like to take our conversation private as I think there has been some serious mis-communication and I'm willing to find out why......</p>
<p>
[quote]
what are you talking about? I was not cynical. I was asking a question that at least one other person found interesting . A standard I'm fairly sure your last post will have trouble meeting. Why so harsh?To ME?
[/quote]
Maybe it is because your reputation precedes you!</p>
<p>Reputation for what? Straightshooting? humor? Honesty? I was a little surprised by the response, too. There didn't seem to be any agenda; just a question.</p>
<p>Thank you garland. :o I do appreciate the vote of confidence. Interestingly enough, I'm finding that this board mirrors my life fairly well. Half like me. Half want to tie a pork chop around my neck and send me out to play with the wolves. mmmm.... I can live with that.</p>