<p>^Yes, my apologies. I agree with your intellectual distinction between income and class, but colloquially long habits are hard to break.</p>
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My middle daughter is the same way and I’ll tell you the same thing as I tell her: If you don’t want kids, the best thing you can do is not have them. My D plans to have bulldogs, but you should find your joy wherever it lies for you! All I’m saying is that some things can’t be explained logically or even fairly, and parents’ feelings about their kids are one of those things.</p>
<p>I agree with zooser- for example- my inlaws I would consider " working class" although their income with both parents working ( truck driver and phone company ), was pretty good.
Priorities however did not include college- the only books they own are a couple cookbooks and a couple " coffee table books" that I think came with the coffee table.</p>
<p>They also find planning for college pretentious- prefer to vacation at Vegas/Tahoe/Branson Mo. every year & priorities include shopping at all of the Nordstrom sales.</p>
<p>While our household income is lower & my H & I education background is similar- our priorities include so many bookcases that I don’t know where we would fit any more- education ( including private school) and continuing to be involved in further education and community service including volunteering/donating locally and abroad.</p>
<p>So while we are blue collar, our interests & friends are perhaps more middle/upper class, as many of our friends have phd.s ( and the income that doesn’t necessarily go with)</p>
<p>We do have some wealthy acquaintances- I have no idea what their income is- but some spend their time volunteering and traveling to attend board meetings- but others are wealthy but they work because they enjoy it.</p>
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<p>I disagree. I think it’s very easy to dismiss view points - even rational ones - because those who have them can’t possibly be “old enough” or “smart enough” or “parent-y enough” or “white enough” or “well-off enough” or “educated enough” to make a point. I’m a rational thinker, which means I’m a rational thinker with or without kids. If my kid has this mad desire to sprout wings, I’m not going to want to “sell a kidney” to help with an impossible dream.</p>
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<p>I wonder if that explains why I have a tendency to dislike parents. They are illogical and rely on their feelings. I’m the opposite. It’s a personality thing. I, too, will never have children. I don’t even like people my own age.</p>
<p>I agree with zm, definitely don’t have kids if you don’t want them. But then again, if you are young, people change their minds as they get older.</p>
<p>I never wanted kids, wanted to get my tubes tied at 23. My parents tried to brainwash any maternal urge out of us by giving us cars, blocks and airplanes to play with. Any doll found in the house was ripped out of our grubby little hands. But…things change. Having my kids is the best thing I’ve ever done. You may be surprised with what you desire later on in life.</p>
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I didn’t dismiss your viewpoint. I noted it as logical. I asked for your understanding. Please note the difference.</p>
<p>“when you’re getting angry and frustrated with what you’re reading from parents please do try to understand that there really is a missing piece for you guys”</p>
<p>I don’t doubt that this is true, but different parents on the thread are reacting very differently. There’s no one “parent reaction” to this dilemma. Some (like yours) are very reasonable; others are less so.</p>
<p>There’s also a piece missing for anyone who is making >$200k and thinks the $60k earners have it so good. It’s the same tunnel vision that leads to white Americans thinking that nonwhites get all the breaks in this country. Talk about needing to walk a while in somebody else’s shoes.</p>
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<p>This is what I mean. Sometimes we refer to it as “white privilege” or “male privilege,” but there is also “class privilege.” For example, it’s like thinking racism doesn’t exist in America because a white male doesn’t see it every day and because the talking heads say it’s true. It’s problematic, but perspective can help.</p>
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<p>That’s great, since I didn’t say you dismissed it. In fact, you’ve been nothing but reasonable, ZM. I was speaking generally. Although I will probably never understand your viewpoint, I was making the point that it is easy for young people/black people/non parents/students/what have you to be dismissed because they “can’t possibly understand.”</p>
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Right, but keil, applicannot and I are friends on the Class of 2010 thread and I wanted to call something to their attention.</p>
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I think, in the case of college, it’s just as likely to be the tunnel vision of parental Americans thinking their kids should have everything they want no matter what.</p>
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This what I pray against! And also what every single person (except ZM, bless her) has told me when I say I don’t ever want kids. Including my female friends of the same age. :rolleyes:</p>
<p>My parents refused to ever buy me video games because they weren’t for girls. I still love dolls and fashion and dress-up. That doesn’t mean I want to be a mother, because I can see the situation rationally and see exactly where I would FAIL as a parent and the negative effects of that on any future kid. I hope genes and hormones never lead me to such a fate. (BTW, I do plan to get married, to someone who shares my opinion on offspring or lack thereof.)</p>
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I think it’s important for everyone to recognize their own limitations in specific situations. In this one, it’s often parents who are responsible for paying for college and complaining/not complaining about it. If you’re not a parent, you don’t own the same sense of responsibility. I have serious educational limits and accept that my views in some circumstances are really lacking a piece of important perspective.</p>
<p>Move to Virginia and use the prepaid college tuition plan. VA Tech is as good an engineering school as anything south of MIT/CalTech and now has its own medical school, William & Mary has the highest SATs of any public university and is great for pre-law, teaching and accounting, and UVA is national university with a top 10 law school and great business programs.</p>
<p>With the prepaid plan your annual return will equal whatver the rate of increase in the tuition is and the State does have a prepaid program.</p>
<p>Virginia and North Carolina are, IMO, the best states in the nation to live in for quality+affordable in-state higher education. UNC is cheaper but VA has W&M for the LAC lovers.</p>
<p>Keil, I have a sister-in-law who never wanted kids. Nice person, educated, spectacularly happy marriage. For whatever reason, she let herself be pushed into it. Her kids have had problems, literally, since the day they were brought home from the hospital. My SIL is the first to say that she never should have had kids, wasn’t good at it, and the kids suffered as a result. If you don’t want them, you know better than anyone else what works for your life. The most responsibility you have is to live the best life you can according to your values. Life is so darn short that to do otherwise is a terrible waste.</p>
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My niece and her husband moved to NC last year for exactly that reason. Their oldest is ten, but they’re already planning for his future. I think that’s the greatest thing.</p>
<p>I wish my husband and I had considered the consequences of having a residency requirement in NYC. You’d think I would have, right? I am the ultimate planner. So there’s my guilt! I didn’t plan enough and we probably didn’t make the right choice.</p>
<p>*My parents tried to brainwash any maternal urge out of us by giving us cars, blocks and airplanes to play with. Any doll found in the house was ripped out of our grubby little hands. *</p>
<p>I know this is off topic- but
I bought my D’s both kinds of toys , but especially with oldest ( I was only 24 when I had her), I thought that interests were more environmental.
She made houses and skirts for her matchbox cars.
;)</p>
<p>I’m not going to have kids, either. Everyone says “oh, you’ll change your mind.” I don’t think so. A lot of people tend to go through these “identity crises” where they change everything about themselves every few decades. I think they are silly, but so be it - everyone’s different. I don’t do them. I’m pretty comfortable with who I am and I didn’t have to go through a crisis every time I want to change my hair color! Anyway, I just don’t do kids. I can’t stand frivolity or dependence, two things that go hand in hand with children. I also don’t have a whole lot of respect for feelings-based decisions or illogical thinking, which means I should probably never be a parent ;)</p>
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I think it’s actually great that you’ve given this serious consideration. I think the absolute worst thing is when people just have kids because it’s expected without ever considering whether they (a) want them or (b) can take care of them.</p>
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<p>I appreciate that. This is one of the instances where I tend to get dismissed, with everyone saying “well I don’t like any kids but my own” and “I thought that, too.” Well if I didn’t like any kids, why on earth would I decide to have them? My mom is convinced that I will lead a miserable and depressed life because I’m “a woman, and my life isn’t complete without having kids.” Ahh. Overpopulation anyone?</p>
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<p>This is where you are completely wrong. Especially for students like applicannot and myself, WE are the ones with a sense of responsibility. Our EFC’s are not Family contributions at all, but all our own. We’re the ones stuck figuring this out. So, to be fair, we do have a place in this conversation. WE are the ones paying for college, or trying like hell to do so. So, just because I haven’t had a child spring from my body doesn’t mean I don’t have a sense of responsibility.</p>