<p>I’m talking about the one-time $2500 scholarship that comes from NMS itself. It wouldn’t surprise me at all if Harvard and others include students receiving that in the list of students “receiving scholarships.”</p>
<p>I find threads like this to be infuriating and very single sighted. Low to middle income kids who have worked very hard and have the grades and scores to be at HPCCYB deserve the opportunity to be there. I feel sorry for people who feel that these top schools should only be filled with those who could afford them. Many parents on this site have very nice incomes and are able to choose where they want to live and the ammenities that go along with it. For kids whose parents do not make the type of incomes many here have, these schools would be nothing but a dream that only the rich could afford. My kids got to MIT and two are at Cornell and another at a state school. I thank all who have made that possible but my kids will pay that forward by one day paying possibly for your grandchildren to attend these same schools. You could complain all you want about it not being fair but the reality is that my kids worked their butts off to attend these schools and they have already been very successful as a new grad and two graduating this year. My kids never had the entitlement thing going on but it certainly sounds like many of the wealthy kids do. My kids worked while going to school…long hard hours. Your kid had time to relax and take part in all sorts of wonderful EC’s. My kids have not left this country, but their minds are far more open than many of the spoiled brats in my community. I don’t feel for those who are making 120,000 and up with one or two kids in school. You should have been prepared when your kids were babies. What the heck were you doing with your money. It sounds like alot of sour grapes with alot of excuses many of which sounds like entitlement for those who are wealthy and therefore see themselves as more deserving. Walk in some other shoes for a while and see how that works for you.</p>
<p>My daughter has worked very hard in school too. (Not to mention my husband and I going to work everyday for decades). But the reality is that at full-pay at a top school, because we would have to pay for her tuition plus half of somebody else’s, tuition is not affordable. </p>
<p>For those who are enthusiastic about this system, I suggest that everyone in this country be given a percentage based on tax returns which is embedded in an identity card. If my family makes more than the average family, we might have a percentage of 125%. Then we would swipe our card at the grocery store, for a morgage, etc. and instead of being charged the standard price (100%), we would be be charged 125%.</p>
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I understand what you are saying here, momma-three, but it seems like you want other people to understand your situation, but you have disdain for theirs. Part of the frustration for a lot of us arises from 2 things. One, we are told over and over “don’t let the price tag stop you from applying - we make it happen for all kinds of people.” The fact is that for some of us, we are effectively priced out, regardless of what our kids might deserve. It’s a myth that some how, some way, it will be affordable for everyone, and coming to accept that can be difficult. </p>
<p>Two, college isn’t like other large consumer products in that income alone doesn’t dictate what you can purchase. So people both above and below us on the economic scale may be able to get their deserving kids into the top schools, while we, who may have worked just as hard or harder, cannot.</p>
<p>You ask what people who make 120K were doing with their money. For us, at least, we certainly were not making that much money for all of the past 17 years. And it’s really hard to see how we could have saved up $400K over that time even if we had lived in cardboard boxes under a freeway overpass.</p>
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<p>momma-three, That was kind of nasty. Almost as bad as someone saying “people should have been prepared 18 years ago. What were they thinking having more than one child?”</p>
<p>“We can’t afford it.” My husband and I probably heard that 4-word phrase almost as often as “we love you” and “you can do anything you set your mind to do” from our parents while we were growing up. And it stuck - we accept that there are certain things we just can’t afford. If there were no excellent options other than full-pay $50K schools - well, even if there weren’t, it still wouldn’t be a tragedy. But there are - great public schools, merit-aid schools, transferring into a full-pay school, if it truly is the kid’s heart’s desire, after a more affordable year or two elsewhere.</p>
<p>I wouldn’t trade the experiences and resources our higher income provided for our kids while they were growing up - from living in a great school district to piano lessons to summer study abroad - for paying less for college now. Those resources probably helped our kids look like attractive admits - something that kids with fewer opportunities can do, too, but it’s more difficult.</p>
<p>I agree that many colleges market themselves by saying “don’t thnk you can’t afford us - we help people from all income levels.” That was never quite enough information for us, and it didn’t take much poking around online to discover that they didn’t mean everyone.</p>
<p>momma-three…I think it is great that your kids are where they are, and I am also sure that they deserve it. They sound like amazing kids. And that is where this discussion goes off the rail so often. My beef is this. OK. You say that my kid has to pay the full tuition, bringing the tally to 400,000 for a couple of kids because our family earns a couple hundred thousand a year (and thereby is also in the highest tax rate AND we get no tuition write-off for taxes to boot). These are kids who will probably also go to grad school. Add another 120,000 to that bill. It truly does become insurmountable, which takes all of those elite schools off the list for us…at least if we are responsible and funding our retirement as well. So be it. Just then don’t act like these kids who have very high ability but really CAN’T pay the full cost (even though the colleges think they can) have equal opportunity at very pricy schools. They really don’t…unless they take on a lot of debt. Some people do that. And then please don’t go on to say that the high quality state schools just aren’t up to snuff. They are. Particularly in their honors programs. I am happy that your kids got a great education. I truly am, but my kids are also getting a great education. In high quality public school,s where their achievements earn them a LOT of merit aid. It’s what we can afford. And since I know so many great families just like ours, whose kids were high achievers in HS, who are going to the same schools, I know better than to believe that “the best” students are all headed to the most heralded schools. Those schools have fine students. We all know that. But when you see state schools where 50-80% of their student body graduated in the top 10% of their HS class…well you know full well that the high quality publics are also getting their share of the best and the brightest.</p>
<p>Not nasty at all. I think the posts that say they resent having to pay full price when they could afford it is nasty. </p>
<p>Sylvan… I don’t have distain at all and I don’t expect anyone who has not walked in our shoes to understand. We make a decent income but we also have four kids all in college at the same time. This is the firsst year we only have three in school. Does anyone think having four kids in school at over $200,000 per year is easy. We did get financial aid but no free ride here. The packages were generous, all but for our kid who attends the state school. That was the worst package of all and as a result she opted to live at home and commute. Our sons worked jobs all through college and have taken loans. The money they have received will be paid back tenfold…that I am sure of. They are each huge contributors to community needs and that in and of itself has been a societal payback. I am entitled to set people straight because the entitlement on this thread is rude.</p>
<p>momma-three: I usually agree with most of what you post here. But in this instance I think you are making generalization like everyone else. I would put my kids as one of those “wealthy kids” just because we are full fare(not really because we are wealthy). But they are far from entitled or spoiled. I also know many of their friends from their private school, and they are down to earth, hard working kids. They got to some of those top schools on their own merit (working just as hard as kids on FA), with their parents provided funding. Those parents are able to provide the funding by working hard, and sacrificing on luxuries. I would say some of that money is hard earned money (I know how much I´ve had to sacrifice in order to provide for my family).</p>
<p>College education is a privilege for anyone, no one is entitled to it.</p>
<p>momma-three, it just really isn’t all that easy for anyone with multiple kids to educate. A lot of “elite” schools have been making big changes in the income levels they consider deserving of help…because they see a lot of families selecting themselved “out” by virtue of a cost benefit analysis. And as Sylvan has stated…just because you were making a good income by the time you were sending your kids off to school, doesn’t mean that you made it throughout all of the years. But it is what it is, right? The good news is that good kids coming out of ALL of these schools can do fine. There are some exceptions…for example, banking and finance, which have traditionally been very biased toward elite schools…but most other fields really don’t discriminate against good public credentials. In the end, who will make it depends largely on factors that go far beyond what college you attended.</p>
<p>“Would anyone think it’s fair to price a car”</p>
<p>Auto prices are normally negotiated. Not everyone pays the same prices for the identical car. You haggle. I am pretty sure auto dealers try to estimate your income when deciding their negotiating strategy. Though I suspect your negotiating skills, knowledge of wholesale costs, etc, are more important factors. </p>
<p>You can also do a certain amount of negotiating with colleges too, IIUC, though not with the need only Ivies.</p>
<p>"But the reality is that at full-pay at a top school, because we would have to pay for her tuition plus half of somebody else’s, tuition is not affordable. "</p>
<p>IIUC, this is not correct. Few universities (I would say none, but I am sure there are some) finance their FA out of “surplus” they make on full pays. FA usually (IIUC) comes from donations/endowment, often from donated funds earmarked for FA.</p>
<p>oldfort…I am not saying that people of high income have not worked hard. I bust my butt as well…the economy has hit me hard this year which is why I am posting on CC more often. Just because some one is wealthy does not mean they are spoiled but the attitude that they should not be paying for another kid to attend the same school as their darlings do is just downright obnoxious. My sons have appreciated every dime they have received from financial aid and they have made the most out of their time in their respective schools. I do not think that any kid just because they are coming from wealthy homes or upper middle class homes have more of a right to be at these schools than my own kids. I also know that Cornell and MIT will be proud to have them as contributing alumni in the years to come.</p>
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<p>Nothing personal towards the poster, but those words have really irked me.
When my kids were about to be born I was a new immigrant, with $100 in my pocket which I have borrowed from my then fiance, now DH. He was then left with $200 
So to answer your question of what the heck I was doing with my money - I was struggling to put food at the table and buying first car with no credit record and no money for down payment. And I am sure I am not the only one here that was in a similar situation 15-20 years ago.</p>
<p>“You say that my kid has to pay the full tuition, bringing the tally to 400,000 for a couple of kids because our family earns a couple hundred thousand a year (and thereby is also in the highest tax rate AND we get no tuition write-off for taxes to boot). These are kids who will probably also go to grad school. Add another 120,000 to that bill. It truly does become insurmountable, which takes all of those elite schools off the list for us…at least if we are responsible and funding our retirement as well. So be it. Just then don’t act like these kids who have very high ability but really CAN’T pay the full cost (even though the colleges think they can) have equal opportunity at very pricy schools. They really don’t…unless they take on a lot of debt.”</p>
<p>assume you had the same number of kids, who also wanted to go to grad school, and the same need to fund retirement, but a lower income. You would, I am quite sure, find financing those schools even MORE difficult.</p>
<p>Leaving aside things like the relative COL of different cities (where I quite sympathize with the New Yorkers) in general having a higher income makes it EASIER to finance college, not harder. Despite FA, income tax, etc.</p>
<p>Brooklynborn…I think that is kind of splitting hairs. Colleges look at income in from all sources - tuition/endowments, etc. and then price the full tuition based on what they need to bring in to supplement tuition, pay expenses, etc. Of course what the full pay student pays depends in part upon what they are giving away for need. Look, I think it is great that awesome kids whose parents do not earn a lot get to attend when they have accumulated the records to gain entrance. But let’s not act like the schools that the middle/upper middle kids can afford are substandard. They are not. If you look inside their numbers, their Honors kids can compete with anyone…and they do.</p>
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<p>Frazzled, that list was just students at Harvard receiving Harvard-funded scholarships, as the title of the chart indicates. Not scholarships from XYZ Corporation or Organization. Sorry, your cynicism is wrong in this case!</p>
<p>momma-three- It is wrong to make the assumption that if the calculated EFC is 100%, a family is wealthy. Also as pointed out, just because the EFC is 100% doesn’t mean a student is spoiled. It is wrong to say that because a student is not full pay they are more deserving.</p>
<p>Brooklynborndad- I don’t think it matters which pocket funding fo FA comes from.</p>
<p>^^^ @ justmytwocents re number 437 - something’s wrong, but it can’t be my cynicism - that’s not my quote. I believe it was Hunt’s statement.</p>
<p>That was my quote–I wasn’t looking at the original chart, but just the excerpt in the post. If it’s just Harvard-funded scholarships, I would simply ask how much those folks earning over $180,000 actually get.</p>