Dear colleges, You have priced the middle/upper of the middle class out, so...

<p>kat, you should send a letter to your state representative explaining the role UNC’s excellent public schools played in bringing your taxpaying, law-abiding family to the state. You can be certain that funding and tuition will come up every session, and you’re a great argument why funding the universities is a good investment for the state.</p>

<p>About the above post I always think that even when plans don’t work out exactly as planned they still get us closer to our goals. Planning teaches us to think logically and models proactive behavior.</p>

<p>Therefore, BBD – even though you D isn’t attending VA schools, thinking practically still helped on the journey to RPI.</p>

<p>Kat – which school is your son graduating from it it is okay to say. It sounds simply awesome.</p>

<p>what helped on the journey to RPI was that she had a superb Math SAT, a 5 on BC calc, a good artistic sense that meant she had a good portfolio for Arch, is a National Merit Finalist, and that she’s female. </p>

<p>Our “planning” really didn’t help. At least not the kind of planning people talk about on CC. The planning of helping her with her issues, loving her, reading to her, nurturing her creativity and curiosity - well thats not really planning to the folks here who usually talk about planning.</p>

<p>“Planning teaches us to think logically and models proactive behavior.”</p>

<p>You don’t really know my family. I would just say, sometimes its okay to be the hare instead of the tortoise, you just have to be REALLY fast, really lucky, and not sleep TOO long :)</p>

<p>Hm. ^^^Well, congratulations all around in any case. We are an intuitive family, but underneath I <em>do</em> often think there is an undertow of logic operating somewhere.</p>

<p>Kat - As many others have already said, you are a wonderful success story! Congratulations to you for navigating through the hype and false promises that cloud the college process.</p>

<p>There are several things that you did, aside from being bold enough to move across country, that I find missing in most families of my acquaintance or professional experience at the high school level.</p>

<p>First - your children were aware of their financial circumstances at an early age. The majority of high school students I talk to have no idea what their parents can afford - and they’re in their junior or senior year of high school.</p>

<p>Second - you didn’t exercise magical thinking about how your financial aid options would turn out. You took early action to insure that there would be an affordable option completely within your power to select, not hope for.</p>

<p>Third - from an early age you presented the affordable options to you kids as the exceptional opportunities that they are; you did not let them fall into a pit of despair over the sad circumstances that required them to “settle”. </p>

<p>This feeling that the kid is “settling” rather than making a sound decision is a by product of the immense “college admissions industry” that has flourished in recent decades. The parents on this thread who feel guilty about not being able to provide everything for their children have been aided and abetted on their way to these feelings of defeat by a vast marketing campaign - begun at the colleges themselves (for their own purposes, to be able to pick and choose amongst the largest possible applicant pool to get exactly what they want - not what they’ve made you believe you can’t live a decent life without) and reinforced by a vast array of college consultants, test prep providers and college “how to” authors.</p>

<p>Raising children is a tremendous responsibility, I understand the guilt felt by middle or upper middle class parents who feel priced out of even their state schools. But I urge you to give your kids the real world perspective that Kat has given her kids - if you allow yourselves and your kids to feel “victimized by the system” rather than taking charge of your options and making a smart choice (less expensive school, cc etc.) you not only feel badly about present circumstances, you send your kids out into the world with feelings of defeat when in fact they are still some of the most privileged and fortunate people on the planet. Some who feel they are a victim of circumstance are more accurately the victims of an aggressive marketing agenda. My impression, from reading this thread, is that those who feel this pain most accutely are those who live in the northeast where proximity to high profile colleges is quite close - and thus the marketing hype is much more difficult to ignore, or even place into perspective.</p>

<p>I have watched high school students go off to college for over a decade; some to private colleges, some to state schools. The ultimate outcome seems much more dependent upon the personal qualities and academic ability of the kid, not the college they attended.</p>

<p>Here here.</p>

<p>Here here here. Great post, bchan1</p>

<p>You make good points, as you respond to Kat’s experiences and POV. While doing that, you also key into the many good feelings as well as the pain expressed throughout this thread. IMO</p>

<p>You conclude:

</p>

<p>If parents could come to terms with this, the attitude might be picked up by their kids with a happier outcome all the way through. A kid who feels he is going to something second-best and hears a lot of background noise of frustration has, I believe, an additional hardship to overcome: getting the noise out of his ears and moving forward. Some parents are better at accepting disappointments than others, and even that is picked up by their children.</p>

<p>Recently a young teen described to me his confusion. After his growth period ended, he was very short. His parents’ sorrow and frustration – extreme, in his view – over his outcome troubled him much more than his dimunutive height. Of course they wanted a few more inches for him, but he was ready to move out into the world with the deal he had been handed.</p>

<p>As to that, my H is short and so is DS. H took him aside and said, “I have the career and woman of my dreams and you’ll do the same. What more is there to want?”</p>

<p>It was great, and S has been fine. Good point. Sometimes easier said than done, but our job.</p>

<p>

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<p>I think it takes into consideration excessive medical costs (at least teh CB modeling toool asks this - but not prop taxes unfortunately.</p>

<p>The real problem here is that the social justice crowd has taken over admissions. Can someone on the thread please explain to me why a family/student going to a top private student should pay dramatically different costs for the exact same education. Keep in mind I’m not taking about people making under 50-60k. A person going to Harvard/Stanford making say 120k pays next to nothing and someone making 250k pays 55k/year. Now the person making 120k might be a public worker and is actually better off than the other family if the pension/benefits are included. The simple fact is that the current system punishes responsible upper middle class families that save money for college. You are better off going on vacation and buying art and then getting financial aid. The system is complete corrupt and run by the same social justice crowd that is destroying everything else. The price should be the same for everyone making over 60k. Then the colleges would have to make their product “worth” the cost. Instead today tuition is just another tax for the upper middle class.</p>

<p>Just in case you were curious:</p>

<p>Parent Income for Harvard scholarship holders 2008-2009
Income Range </p>

<h1>of Range students</h1>

<p>1-10,000……….125
10,001-20,000….149
20,001-30,000….212
30,001-40,000….207
40,001-50,000….191
50,001-60,000….298
60,001-70,000….193
70,001-80,000….254
80,001-90,000….213
90,001-100,000……209
100,001-110,000……210
110,001-120,000……170
120,001-130,000……169
130,001-140,000……178
140,001-150,000……180
150,001-160,000……179
160,001-170,000……164
170,001-180,000……134
180,001+………….580</p>

<p>In other words, in 2008-2009, 580 students at Harvard had family incomes of $180,000+ and received need-based financial aid.</p>

<p>Just FYI. </p>

<p>(By the way, acc. to the last [2005] available Census data, only 5.8% of American families have a household income greater than $150,000…)</p>

<p>Just like it’s expensive to maintain a middle to upper class class lifestyle, it is expensive to run a college. You have to pay salaries (and health insurance), maintain (and heat/ cool) old buildings, as well as respond to what customers demand. Consumers demand rock climbing walls, academic journal subscriptions, and student support services so that’s what colleges are providing. </p>

<p>As far as I’m concerned, private institutions can allocate their own funds as they see fit, just like families do. Why not charge a high price for those able and willing to pay? The “elite” schools still have more applicants than spaces. There is no shortage of families who are willing and able to pay full price, especially once you factor in internationals. And for those who want to pay less there are other options too. </p>

<p>Full pay families at the “elite” schools get a bargain in a sense that these institutions spend more per student (thanks to endowment funds) than the price they charge.</p>

<p>Does anyone have any (realistically) better suggestions? The status quo is not perfect and may not be fair, but despite all this the United States has the best university system in the world. From Harvard to community colleges and the University of Phoenix we have enough spaces (and a wide price range) for just about every deserving student to go to a college.</p>

<p>Neither poster remotely answered my question. Name me something else in America where the price is decided by income. Would anyone think it’s fair to price a car or house based on your income. In America there are dual income families where they both work and are paying full tuition and others with one choosing not to work getting finanical aid. The system makes little sense other than as a crude form of social justice. The degree should be worth the cost or else there is no value. A family making 100k should be willing to pay full cost if the degree provides enough benefit. But instead the cost of tuition is largely unrelated to the cost of undergraduate teaching since many schools now have more administrators than teachers.</p>

<p>One’s ability to get a loan (which is based on income) for a car/ house is a proxy for how much car/ house one can buy. Sleazy sales people often raise the price of something for those who really want/ need/ are able to buy it. </p>

<p>It’s not fair that colleges do not consider costs of living. $50k in NYC (or other costal areas) is not the same as various places in the south/ midwest. It’s not fair that low income students do not have the same advantages that their richer peers do. It’s not fair that there is not a distinction made between an income earned by one income household versus a two income household. It’s not fair that the quality of public education students receive depends on where their parents can afford to live. While life is unfair, I think most colleges are trying to make college as affordable as they can for most number of families. Everyone has limited resources-- families and colleges alike. However, I don’t think people would be complaining about the high cost of (certain) colleges if they didn’t think it was worth it.</p>

<p>If you go to collegeresults dot org and look at categories like “instructional expenditures per full time enrolled student” you will see that the schools with the most generous need based financial aid policies are the ones who spend the most per student. This is no accident.</p>

<p>Hm. I don’t spend one minute feeling abused. I am grateful the FA exists and happy for those who make out well with the system. Colleges don’t have to discount at all. Some use FA as a tool for “social justice” as you put it, and some see their mission slightly differently.</p>

<p>I live in an expensive neighborhood on the east coast so I’m sure I would benefit if cost of living were factored. But it isn’t.</p>

<p>I have made many personal sacrifices to send my kids to the colleges I have. I have considered it a privilege and I enjoyed seeing how frugal I could become. I think it modeled behavior for my children and gave me a sense of accomplishment. Friends think it too self-sacrificing. I don’t think it’s the college’s responsibility. One knows as soon as this baby is born that a college education is in the offing 18 years later if one ils lucky. If one is lucky one’s child is successful and a candidate for college.</p>

<p>Those with no options whose resources are so limited that they can’t take on this obligation are eligible for more help than I am. I am glad of that.</p>

<p>

The price of college is not decided by parental income. The amount of financial aid is. Colleges are labor-intensive and also must provide cutting-edge technology in order to remain competitive. Those are expensive factors. Colleges already offset the cost for each student via endowment and other resources, so no student actually pays “full” freight. </p>

<p>There’s no shame in deciding that you won’t pay the cost of a private college for your child. If a $50K annual price tag is too high for you, your child can still receive an excellent education at a state university.</p>

<p>Thanks for a great post, mythmom!</p>

<p>

Well, maybe. It may have been a tiny amount for most of them. Also, when I read such figures about “scholarships,” I always wonder if the $2500 National Merit Scholarships are included–if so, I’ll bet a lot of kids at Harvard have those–pays for the first ten days of college or thereabouts.</p>

<p>Thanks, frazzled.</p>

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<p>IRCC, I do not think that Harvard or most of the other Ivies participate in NMS.</p>

<p>list of schools (pages 18/19)</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.nationalmerit.org/student_guide.pdf[/url]”>http://www.nationalmerit.org/student_guide.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Post #390 - Pizzagirl is exactly right. When you have schools like Michigan/IU/University of Illinois/Purdue/OSU/Miami to choose from…with Honors programs in all of them, you really don’t HAVE to pay 50,000 a year to have a great choice where your kid will face plenty of challenge and opportunity. One of things I hear from a lot of people is that there seem to be a lot of kids with money in these schools. That’s because there ARE a lot of kids with money in these schools. And with In-State tuition, these kids attend college with all the bells and whistles…including extensive opportunity for study abroad.
In our area, 95% of the docs went to IU…the ONLY medical school in our state. Yes, there are schools where the kids are more uniformly super-bright, obviously, but the top 20% of any of these schools is of extremely high ability. And when you are pretty sure your kid is thinking grad school, you can get a kid through a good school AND grad school and still have some money left to pay for their wedding!</p>