<p>
</p>
<p>Careful is relative. You don’t often see people try to murder with their bare fists in the middle of a busy mall, for instance. The chances of success are just too low.</p>
<p>But I would murder for the tax dollars.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Again, most don’t CARE about whether they live or die. Many try to die during the fact (ie- murder-suicide, suicide by cops, etc). </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Except that it’s per capita not just Texas has x number of murders and North Dakota has x number.</p>
<p>Ok, that’s what I was wondering:)</p>
<p>Again, as I mentioned previously, I’m indecisive regarding which side I support. There are positive and negative aspects of both.</p>
<p>It actually costs taxpayers way more to execute someone than to keep them in jail. The death penalty, is in my opinion ridiculous. It scares me that the government can take someone’s life, and with new forensic technologies available, many death sentences have been overturned because of DNA evidence, etc. A man who had been on death row but was released came to talk at a college near mine, he came within 13 hours of being executed before being exonerated. This was in the 70’s when they still had the electrocution chair, and he could hear it buzzing as they tested it, was measured for his last suit that he’d be buried in, etc. Recently, many executions have been postponed due to the fact that their was a botched killing in Ohio recently. Here’s a good site that shows all these botched killings and provides other info on it. [Some</a> Examples of Post-Furman Botched Executions | Death Penalty Information Center](<a href=“http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/some-examples-post-furman-botched-executions]Some”>http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/some-examples-post-furman-botched-executions)</p>
<p>People do some pretty horrific things in criminal acts, but does the government have to take an equally barbaric approach?</p>
<p>^That reminds me of the “pulling the plug” decision: [Trapped</a> in his own body for 23 years - the coma victim who screamed unheard | World news | The Guardian](<a href=“http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/nov/23/man-trapped-coma-23-years]Trapped”>Trapped in his own body for 23 years - the coma victim who screamed unheard | Belgium | The Guardian)</p>
<p>@horsegirl, I agree with everything you just said.</p>
<p>I remember hearing about that. Thanks for the article!</p>
<p>Re: the cost to taxpayers of life sentences: Make them work while they’re in prison. That could possibly pay the bills. Life in prison is a better (harsher) punishment than death for those who deserve it, gives you a chance to exonerate the criminal if you have the wrong guy, and if you have to work (preferably really hard manual labor or something)…</p>
<p>Well to me we’d have to look at a couple of factors:</p>
<p>Legality
The right to life is THE core human right. We derive several of our moral and legal guidelines from our definition of the individual human life as sacret and equal in value. Amongst others the heavy punishment for murder and the concept egalitarian democracy. And those rights are - as defined f.e. in the DoI - inalienable. No person and no state has ever the right to kill or take away basic human rights, here life.</p>
<p>Justice
Many people also - I think - do confuse the concept of “justice” with that of “vengeance”. The theory appears to be that a crime can be ‘undone’ or the produced pain can be reduced by hurting the offender. I do not bevlieve that a state should be involved in such an ugly concept of retaliation.
If anything the sparing of the murderers life is a sign of strength and superiority of the state and of our morals. </p>
<p>Science
Modern psychology and neuro-science both tell us that there is no such thing as a “bad” person. No one ever deserves death and no one has “evil” inside of him. Almost all research done in the field points to three reasons for acts of cruelty: Systems, situations, illness. I could now bring up a million examples, but I’ll cut it short. There are no “bad apples”, there are only bad systems and enviroments for unlucky people. All of which can not be cured through retaliation.</p>
<p>Economics
Statistically you’d have to privatize death row or abolish a couple of legal rights in order to be able to execute at a rate that would make any true financial difference to a state budget. This really isn’t about money and it shouldn’t be.
As a matter of fact, if the states stopped locking up or killing every kid who deals pot and started investing in resocialization and social programs maybe they wouldn’t have overcrowded and expensive prisons, unbelievable relapse- and crime rates.</p>
<p>Other
I’m not even going to start about racial discrimination or all those who are innocent here!</p>
<p>-</p>
<p>I am from Germany and while there isn’t all that much about my country that I would consider to be “superior” enough for me to be pointed out, I am really fascinated by our legal system. It was majorly reformed in the 70s and can even today serve as a role model. It does not allow for either the death penalty or even indefinate detainment. Social and mental health experts are closely integrated in almost all heavy cases. The goal of our system is not to punish, but to ultimately reintegrate offenders into society. And that works.
My dad works in a prison and we used to live really close to a heavy-security prison here. And I can tell you: There hardly have to be guards. Former murderers who have good psych-recommendations or have served for some time can walk and work around the close neighborhoods and return to their cells or even self managed living quarters in the evening. Almost all receive therapy, job training and regular mental health assesments. Upon reviews by experts prison sentences can be turned into paroles or can be extended. Every “life-sentence” is to be turned into a parole sentence after 15 years as long as there are no security concerns.</p>
<p>The death penalty is unjust, inhumane and populist. It is the example and definition of what is wrong with so many judiciary systems around the world.</p>
<p>Well, if it’s so injust, what can you do to alternate the system? Perhaps we should focus on that aspect.</p>
<p>@tobiz, </p>
<p>Great post! You make all the points I agree with, but perhaps more eloquently that I could have. And thanks for your perspective (with relation to Germany). I agree with all you wrote.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>And what are you gonna do if they don’t work? Arrest them and throw them in prison? Oh wait…</p>
<p>^Good point. If they don’t work, though, I don’t suppose they’ll get fed.</p>
<p>EDIT: Though that’s not really a deterrent for some people.</p>
<p>lol chain gangs</p>
<p>[threadjacking]I always thought gun control was a more important issue[/threadjacking]</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>True, it’s not a deterrent. Besides, it’s illegal to withhold food from prisoners. Cruel and unusual punishment.</p>
<p>If you’re not a prisoner and you don’t work, you don’t get fed. It’s not like there’s no opportunity for them to eat.</p>
<p>v Killing someone might cause less pain than starving to death.</p>
<p>So, it’s cruel and unusual to withhold food, but killing someone is okay…?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Where the hell did you get that from? Don’t be ignorant. </p>
<p>It has been ruled that withholding food from a prisoner is cruel and unusual punishment. Not my law, it just is. It has also been ruled that killing someone is illegal.</p>
<p>lol i was just playing off what u wrote in ur post, it wasn’t to be taken as some profound statement…i’ll have to be careful, or else ill be deemed IGNORANT!</p>
<p>Anyways, I’m dead-set (pun semi-intended) against the death penalty.</p>
<p>by killing someone, i meant execution by way of the <em>legal</em> death penalty .</p>
<p>Here is something you can’t understand, how I could just kill a man.</p>