<p>Hi everyone,</p>
<p>I know that many debaters go to Yale, especially those from the national circuit (TOC) and those who are successful at NFLs - does anyone know if admissions officers know what TOC is and what that means in terms of prestige? For example, top 16 at TOC is probably more difficult than something similar at NFL Nationals, since there's a great deal of research and private coaching, etc - would admissions officers know the two competitions, the differences, etc? </p>
<p>On a college app, one could put "Top ___ at Tournament of Champions", for example. Is that enough for admissions to recognize or is something more specific needed? </p>
<p>Also, how large is the debate program at Yale? Is it well-known on campus (locally) /throughout the country (tournaments)? </p>
<p>Thanks!</p>
<p>These are all good questions. Nobody can tell you for sure but it is probably a safe bet that most of the Yale adcoms know about the TOC. They may not all know the difference between the level of competitiveness of the TOC vs NFL, nor the significant differences between Policy, LD, PF, Parliamentary, and other styles of debate. There are many prior TOC and/or NFL participants/winners at Yale. My guess is their debating record helped them gain admission, but of course they were probably very strong academically as well. Don’t expect debate to overcome any academic deficiencies you might have. “I spent a lot of time on debate and that is why I have those B’s” is not going to be a winning argument, even if a debater makes it :)</p>
<p>Yale has a debate team that is mostly Parliamentary style and I believe they do well in tournaments. There is not much policy debate. If you are a policy debater and want to compete in the NDT, then apply to Harvard, Dartmouth, Northwestern and other policy debate colleges.</p>
<p>Debate is one thing that is clearly stronger at Yale than anywhere else in the country. You can look at the American Parliamentary Debate Association website to check historical standings to see that this has been true for years. This year Yale had more qualified debaters for the national tournament at West Point than teams #2-#5 combined. The team has incredible depth and mentoring of novice debaters and upperclassmen even function as “academic advisors” to the newbies. The downside might be that it is competitive to make this team and only 17 freshman and sophomores made the team out of 130 applicants so some students might have a better chance of participating in debate at lesser programs. The Parliamentary style of collegiate debate is different than what most high school kids are trained in and there is some learning curve if you are a congressional or LD debater. It is likely that the adcoms know what the TOC is and if you are that into debate, I’m sure you can fit in a few lines or more into your essays about this activity.</p>
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<p>I am a big fan of Yale, but I think that statement is a bit over the top. I don’t want to get into a debate on the styles of debate but I believe the most intense nationally competitive debaters (in high school and college) only do policy debate and do not consider Parliamentary debate to be as demanding. Having said that it is probably the case that Parliamentary debate is better suited to college students- policy debate has a way of taking over too much of a student’s life in a way that is not healthy- probably not healthy in high school, and definitely not healthy in college. </p>
<p>Disclaimer: I do not have first hand experience in the different styles of debate and as I said above, I do not want to get into a debate about the debating styles. I hope my post doesn’t prompt a whole bunch of angry responses from Yale debaters- I would not be able to defend myself from them :)</p>
<p>If you are talking about Parliamentary debate, Yale has the best team in the country. Yale does not have a Policy Debate team so I will concede that it is not a force in that discipline. Looking at the National policy debate website, the only schools that might compete for Yale students that do policy debate are Harvard, Northwestern, Dartmouth and Emory. Of those, only Northwestern seems to compare in dominance in their debate format. I also have no first hand experience in different debate formats so I have no way to know which format would be more attractive to a high school student who has to transition into one or the other. Since this was posted on a Yale forum, I’m sure VP will indulge me to say that the intercollegiate debaters at Yale dominate the parliamentary debate league, are top ranked in the U.S., and are ranked third in the world.</p>
<p>Debate95: If you have a particular question about Debate at Yale, PM me and I’ll get it answered.</p>
<p>^ I am happy to agree with anything that highlights Yale’s greatness :)</p>
<p>To YaleGradandDad’s list of policy debate schools that might compete with Yale (Harvard, Dartmouth, Northwestern and Emory), I’d add U.C.-Berkeley and Georgetown. From an admissions perspective, it is a plus at any of those schools if the debate coach wants you. I don’t know if this plays a role at Yale, where parliamentary debate is a student-run organization. </p>
<p>HS policy debaters who want to continue in that very demanding activity will generally aim for schools that have a team. But some very strong policy debaters have chosen to go to Yale, including at least one TOC winner who’s a current student.</p>
<p>^ And I believe that TOC winner chose not to do Parli debate at Yale…is that correct?</p>
<p>Thanks for the replies! </p>
<p>I understand that debate doesn’t substitute for an academic deficiency - I guess I have kind of a different scenario in mind. </p>
<p>The top student at our school (Yale '15 now) does a lot of things though none too heavily - i.e., he’s president of debate and has a 5.0, and does various clubs, but has never achieved on a national level at anything. This seems to be one path to somewhere like Yale - really smart and committed to a variety of things, though not unbelievably successful at any of them, only successful. </p>
<p>In contrast, I do debate intensively and enjoy that a lot more than being involved in dozens of clubs - does taking the path of trying to win TOC (or come close) make up for (or supersede) the lack of so much variety? I’m involved in other (generic but fun) activities, but debate is really my focus and passion. Can that work (absent any academic deficiencies, since academic excellence is kind of a prerequisite)? </p>
<p>Also, regarding the debate team - does Yale travel outside of the United States, or are tournaments only inside the country? </p>
<p>Would I be correct that Yale is (based on the above comments) more traditional in its debate style and based on persuasion/lay debate, whereas Harvard and other colleges are more TOC-style policy?</p>
<p>Thanks!</p>
<p>Focus and national success in a single extra-curricular activity can be very impressive to admission committees provided you have the academic excellence too. You do not need to be a “jack of all trades”. </p>
<p>The Yale team does travel outside the U.S. mostly to Britain and the World Championships in December which were most recently at Botswana and will be in Manilla and Berlin over the next two years.</p>
<p>I would suggest you look on youtube to see demonstrations of Parliamentary debate (I know national rounds are recorded) to get a sense of the type of debate style used.</p>
<p>Here is one example:
<a href=“http://www.parlidebate.com/recordings.php?id=244[/url]”>http://www.parlidebate.com/recordings.php?id=244</a>
(I don’t know if this particular one is British Parliamentary or American Parliamentary style but there are definitely links to APDA tournaments on this site). The Yale debaters do both but mostly the American Parliamentary style.</p>
<p>Hi! I have a relevant and similar query so I thought I’d put it here. I was this year’s State Champion in Lincoln-Douglas Debate. Even though I live in a state with a small population (it’s not as difficult as getting state champ in, say, California or New Jersey), will such an honor have a significant impact on a Yale admissions decision? Thanks! :)</p>
<p>Being state champion is still a big deal, IMO. It won’t be a guaranteed acceptance, but it could definitely have bearing on your application. </p>
<p>Debate is my main EC as well, but I’m concerned that my lack of national awards will put me at a disadvantage compared to other debaters applying to Yale. Because of some ugly politics in our debate community, I’ve never been able to go to NFL nats…our NFL district president has arbitrarily moved the date of the district competition every year to the EXACT same day as science fair, meaning I never get to even compete…Hopefully the rest of my app will make up for not having national awards.</p>
<p>Yale is ranked 3rd in the World Universities Debate ranking after Sydney and Monash and Yale has won the most number of APDA best club of the year I think …s Yale is definitely a debate powerhouse</p>
<p>I get a kick out of this thread, especially the folks weighing in who don’t seem to know much about debate. Comparing Parli and PD is like comparing apples and oranges. That’s not to take anything away from either. Policy, at one of the schools that maintains a serious team, is much like a varsity sport, with paid coaches. Generally the team raises money through a camp, which generates something on the order of $1million per year to put toward program expenses and salaries. (Harvard uses extensive fundraising to substitute for the lack of a camp.) Parliamentary debate is a student-run club. It’s like comparing the Ultimate Frisbee champion to varsity Football.
In any event, the whole thread went on a tangent the original poster was asking whether an admissions officer at Yale would know enough about the nuances of PD to understand the difference between someone who placed top 16 at the TOC versus higher at the NFL. The answer is that he probably wouldn’t care. You put yourself forward as a person. You should follow your passion. Then let the school decide whether you are a good fit for them.</p>