<p>Im only a sophomore, but what should I do to increase my chances of being accepted there? What helped you the most, in your opinion? Any extracurriculars that look really good?</p>
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<p>This is just my opinion, but decent scores vary from institution to institution. Penn, specifically, I think decent scores are scores within the 25-75, or at the 50% percentile - maybe I’m saying this because that’s the score i got LOL.</p>
<p>Withtheflow;
Someone here on CC got accepted this year with an ACT score of 27. Of course that is not the norm but a higher score is safer.</p>
<p>Withtheflow and j0shk10;
I’m not going to dwell on GPA and class rank there are plenty of threads that discuss those. You’ve heard everybody say the essays are BIG and they are. Your essay and writing style really needs to grab the reader. Not a bad idea to have someone (obviously a great writer) look at it for content, clarity, and deliver the 1-2 punch. </p>
<p>Next, recommendation letters are also very important IMO. Typical recommendation letters that say “little Johnie did great, always worked hard in class, made straight A’s…” is not what I am referring to. You need to pick one of your teachers that will put something that again, grab the readers attention. Letters such as, I’ve been teaching for 37 years and little Johnnie is probably one of my best students I’ve ever taught…I think you get the picture. For example, my daughters Calculus teacher told her that out of the three top students in his class she was the only one that didn’t have a math tutor. He told her that she was really learning the material so that it would stick. He made sure he mentioned that in the letter, again it shows a little bit more about you as a strong candidate for the school you are applying for. (We never actually read what was put in the letter).</p>
<p>ECs, this is a tough one. You can do many great things outside of class. Of course you should be in many school clubs or organizations and you need to be officers of some of them. How do you spell VOLUNTEER? Volunteering is very important in the community. Be a bit creative on something you do over the summer. Think of a volunteer effort where it may be tough to do but demonstrates a passion for wanting to help out the less fortunate. Maybe working at an orphanage, etc. Do you play a musical instrument, involved in sports, public speaking, etc? All of these mentioned you need to make sure are in the application.</p>
<p>There are no guarantees any of this will work to get into Penn but I believe it doesn’t hurt.</p>
<p>Its sad when people think a more enthusiastically worded recommendation letter and more of the usual volunteering/school clubs is going to be a significant plus for them. Unless your recommendation letter is from a US Senator followed by a personal phone call- nobody cares how good random teacher X thinks you are if it isn’t already showcased by your stats. In fact- If the OP was a non-URM (or asian female particularly) and hadn’t applied ED- there’s a chance an adcom would have tossed it without bothering to read the essays/recs. To think that people who have seen 100s of thousands of apps for their job have an interest in actively finding out “what kind of a person” each of them are is ludicrous and almost telling of the narcissism in our society. In most other countries they would laugh at this idea.</p>
<p>@foxdie</p>
<p>The admissions office does care about recomendation letters and essays. It is true that the OP may have been accepted since they applied ED but that is not the only reason. As has been repeated many times, the admissions process at top colleges is holistic which means that they consider all parts of your application. While it is true that in many different countries such as UK, India and China, test scores play a much larger, nearly dominant role in admissions, this is not the case in the US. The admissions office is interested in putting together a diverse and interesting class. If your premise was correct, then Penn Class of 2017 would be composed of individuals with SAT scores of >2350 and nobody else. Clearly this is not the case, just take a look at the ED results if you don’t believe me. Also, individual admissions officers have not read hundreds of thousands of application. The average admissions officer has probably read at most ten thousand apps.</p>
<p>emblem you didn’t get my premise at all.
First, a SAT average anywhere near that would be impossible while accommodating diversity and other targets even for Harvard.</p>
<p>illustrating example:
RD round: On the top of a printout you have an asian female. unfamiliar high school. decent but below average (for Penn) stats. no legacy/athlete/developmental or other label. There is an external policy of holistic review- which I’m sure they make some effort to abide by. But like I said “there is a chance an adcom would have tossed it without bothering to read the essays/recs.” </p>
<p>On the other hand- the holistic view you are talking about comes very much into play for people who do pass the initial printout even barely. So the holistic view works to REJECT people who are not well-rounded rather than ACCEPT people who are below-average but rounded. (that’s why rejects with top stats are not uncommon). This is the only efficient method I can imagine. I don’t profess to know what goes on inside- but the printout at the top is a real occurrence and certainly it should anchor an adcom’s view of an applicant and how closely they should look at someones file.</p>
<p>Lastly- please note I said “there is a chance…” as I’m sure they try for the holistic shtick. But its not realistic to expect that consistently.</p>
<p>I think I was an example of what the OP was getting at. When I applied ED to Penn in 2009, I thought I had no shot of getting in because of my grades and lack of extracurriculars. While I was in the top 10% of my class in high school, I felt that my unweighted GPA was too low, and although I was very involved in science Olympiad and in music, I held no leadership positions in either. My test scores were good but not outstanding (2220, 790 Chem, 800 Math, 5s on all 3 APs I had taken, Calc BC, English Language, and US History) For a while, I thought it was a fluke that I got in to Penn. What I did not realize though was how much my essays and possibly recommendations revealed about me as a student and person. I have always had a ton of both intense and diverse intellectual interests and a desire to go into academia (I plan to get a PhD in Physics), which has led me to develop great relationships with professors during my time at Penn. I also am very involved in research and in my major among other things. I definitely think this must have come accross in my essays and recommendations. I think that these were the qualities that stood out on my application which allowed admissions to decide that I would be a nice addition to the Penn community.</p>
<p>-“Penn, specifically, I think decent scores are scores within the 25-75, or at the 50% percentile”</p>
<p>I heard this is only true if you are not an ORM</p>
<p>well…this created a controversy :p</p>
<p>I don’t think most applicants like to hear about the admission decision all coming down to how well they get to know you thru your essays.</p>
<p>Years of hard, hard work and great stats and it all coming down to essays is stress inducing for a few.</p>
<p>I really feel bad for the ORMs. They have a ton of stress to be perfect. I don’t know what kind of home life that creates but I can bet that holistic stuff displeases them.</p>
<p>As far as URMs, I really don’t see the great boost it supposedly offers. URMs still make up a very small part of the student body unless you add them all together including Asians. For example, an Ivy with 8% blacks out of a student body of 2,500 is only 200 blacks or 50 per class. Are the 88% of the 30,000 applicants that don’t get accepted blaming it all on the 50 spots given to black applicants? Ridiculous!!! The math doesn’t add up. There are 30 times more applicants than available spots. Ultimately, great, great kids will be rejected. It’s simple math.</p>
<p>Good post Madaboutx. What is an ORM?</p>
<p>As I mentioned before I believe Ivy League admission counselors are looking for kids with great stats but also really strong ECs. The kind of kid that will do great things when they return back to their communities. ECs that go back for the last 4 (or more) years not just the last 1 or 2. I know my daughter wanted to attend an Ivy League school since she was in junior high school so she started working towards it since then. </p>
<p>I’m sure you and I could read 10 applications and probably would pick the same one we think would be the best out of the group. I have to believe these counselors are really good at picking out the kids that they believe are going to do well at Penn and life after Penn. As you stated there are plenty of great kids that get rejected and I’m sure they get accepted into some other great school. </p>
<p>Your discussion regarding blacks (and minorities) is right on and I’m sure there are some of those 30,000 applicants that will blame not getting into Penn because of a quota, silly but its true. Remember not all minorities are URMs, believe me. We’re a minority and we’re expected to pay the entire Penn bill!</p>
<p>ORM means Over Repredented Minority, read Asian.</p>
<p>URMs are black and Hispanics whether you are paying the entire bill or on 100% grant, if you belong to these groups, you are URM since you minorities of these groups are under represented.</p>
<p>Well if you are URM and low income, then you have 2 hooks.</p>
<p>bumping this up for all the prospies :)</p>