Deciding on schools!!

<p>Hi guys,</p>

<p>so now finally all the decisions are out. PHEW.</p>

<p>I got into some good music programs including SFCM, U of Puget Sound, and CIM. But UPS seems like the school I'll go to. They gave me tons of scholarships unlike other schools. And my parents are going to move back to Korea (that's where I'm originally from) they want me to stay as close as possible. And I didn't really get any scholarships from Boston U or CIM, so that's another factor. But I'm afraid that UPS' music isn't as rigorous as others. (UPS was my safety. but I really do realize there's no safety when it comes to music) Does anybody know if it has a good music program? or the level of talent of the students there? Will I be able to grow as a musician to the same/higher level as other students at conservatories like CIM, BU, Oberlin, etc.?</p>

<p>Thanks.</p>

<p>woops
i forgot about sfcm. i got into sfcm, boston u, puget sound and cim.</p>

<p>Did you get any scholarship from SFCM? That’s not much farther from Korea than UPC and has a pretty good violin faculty (you’re a violinist, right?) Also-- did you approach the other schools you got into and ask them to reconsider your scholarship?</p>

<p>Well I guess I could go to sfcm. But I wished that a school had a legit campus and all. But i could see myself going there as well. Even though the area is very sketchy. And I thought ups had decent music program. But I don’t know how it is really.</p>

<p>Funny you should mention Puget ----just found out yesterday that one of D’s friends who got her undergrad in VP there is on her way to Juilliard for he MM, I had never heard of it before, but apparently someone there is producing some very good singers (sorry I don’t know who the teacher is).</p>

<p>WOOPS
COMPLETELY neglected the fact that you are a violin major!
Sorry Rachelee!!!</p>

<p>From looking at the website it is a small program, it looks like they have two teachers for violin (could be there are more, that is just the website). The symphony orchestra is 70-75 members, which is indicative of a small program. One thing I suspect is that the symphony, to make that kind of size from a small program, will be both instrumental majors and non music majors, which could mean the level isn’t that consistently high (I don’t know for sure, this is guesswork). I looked at the repertoire, and it is relatively challenging.</p>

<p>Here are some pluses and minuses I see, hope this helps, this is how I would evaluate it to help my child:</p>

<p>Pluses:</p>

<p>-if you get a lot of scholarship money from them,means you won’t be in debt or have your parents on the hook for a ton of money,which is generally a big consideration in music. </p>

<p>-The small size might work for you, the repertoire that I can see has a lot of violin solo work, and if you are good enough to get serious scholarships from them, it might indicate that you would have a good shot at solo opportunities (from my perspective).</p>

<p>-It looks like Bard’s program, where you also have academic classes to take,if I read it right, so it will be a lot more rounded then a conservatory environment</p>

<p>-The teachers are young, but both seemed to have come out of U Mich under Kantor, who is a high level teacher, and they seem to have active careers. And being in a small environment, might mean more attention, though I don’t know. More attention might mean, for example, that there will be more room to work on issues you might (or might not) have technically and otherwise, in a conservatory setting there may be less room to work on such issues (again, just my opinion, based on what I have seen and heard from others, that isn’t personal experience)</p>

<p>-Great campus location it sounds like, and in an area dense enough to support a lot of music activities outside the school (seattle/tacoma). </p>

<p>Negatives:</p>

<p>-If you are the kind of person who drives themselves up by competition around themselves, an environment like this might not be the best. There are kids who are so self driven they push themselves higher and higher regardless of where they are, others seem to do better seeing how good everyone else is and go after them, so to speak. I suspect in an environment like this, the playing level will be at varying levels, much more so then at a conservatory. A place like this you might need to be more self driven, even if the teachers are demanding (a word that associated with violin teacher seems like a double statement!), because there may not be many students at your level.</p>

<p>-As I noted above, the level of the orchestra and ensembles may not be as high level as it could be, so it may not be as beneficial experience as playing in a higher level ensemble at a conservatory. </p>

<p>-The teachers may be an unknown quantity, they are young, and could be great, but they also may be less then great, there is no way of knowing. I am not saying the teachers aren’t good, I am saying not knowing is tough…with a teacher who is more established, you may have more indications of what they have done…</p>

<p>-If you don’t like your teacher, it sounds like your opportunities are limited, given the small faculty. </p>

<p>-if they require you to do an academic degree as well as the musical one, as at Bard (I couldn’t tell from the website), it could be a lot more work. </p>

<p>SFCM-</p>

<p>Pluses:</p>

<p>-Pretty high level program, generally attracts high level students. If you need the competition to drive your own level up, it will be here I suspect. </p>

<p>-Number of respected, known teachers on violin. Among other things, you could switch teachers if the one you were working with didn’t work out. </p>

<p>-Ties to the SF Symphony and SF Opera Orchestra, both of which are top level ensembles (access to concerts, also master classes, etc). </p>

<p>-Probably performance opportunities in and out of school, given the nature of SF.</p>

<p>-SF is an interesting city, lot of artsy stuff and other things (also a great city if you want to stay in shape…just walk around and you lose weight, I swear:). </p>

<p>-From what I know their orchestras are high level and play uniformly challenging rep</p>

<p>Negatives:</p>

<p>-Cost (sounds like you would be full freight there). Coming out of music school with debt is generally not a great thing if you have to go that way.</p>

<p>-Competition would mean your opportunity to solo and such opportunities would be limited, given the caliber of students.</p>

<p>-Being a smaller fish in a big sea means you could in some ways ‘get lost’. </p>

<p>-If you don’t like the neighborhood, that may be a negative</p>

<p>Conventional wisdom would be to go with SF and the more established/known program, but in the end it has to be what is right for you. One other thing to keep in mind is that your UG study doesn’t have to be the end of the line, as someone else mentioned with a voice student you could go to UPS, do well, and move on to another, more ‘prestigious’ program for an MM, for example, happens all the time…I am saying that so you realize that the UG experience isn’t necessarily life threatening, that there are a lot of paths to making it in music:)</p>

<p>thank you for your thoughtful answers! but obviously i have to think more. .</p>

<p>oh and this teacher from Puget Sound–Dr. Maria Sampen, I think she’s REALLY interested in my playing and talent. I don’t really know why but she’s been giving me phone calls, emails saying that she really wants me in her studio and that’s why I was awarded the top violin scholarship. It’s so huge that i get to save almost all of tuition for the whole 4 years. </p>

<p>That definitely attracts me and makes me lean towards puget sound but really what it matters is if i’ll improve. I believe that anyone can improve anywhere if they put the best effort. So sometimes i think that won’t be much of a problem, but again the music program isn’t as rigorous so i’m little worried. :(… and then i think maybe i should just go to sfcm even though it’s a lot of money and my parents aren’t gona stop spending money for a while because my siblings are going to private school in korea (and it’s really expensive). </p>

<p>and i met someone on CC who goes to UPS and is in the same teacher’s studio as me who recently auditioned as trasnfer at schools like UT Austin, U of michigan. that’s awesome and that proves that anyone who works hard gets results like that. so i’m hoping if i work hard as well i’ll then go to good grad schools. but again, UPS is worrying me a little bit. </p>

<p>and I don’t think UPS is like Bard’s program. In Bard, don’t you have to double major in music and something else? I think at UPS, if you just wanna do music, you can. </p>

<p>So any more comments? Will UPS be a good fit for me? Or should I just choose SFCM?</p>

<p>If your parents are fine with paying tuition wherever you decide, then I would take money out of the equation. It comes down to whether you want go where you will be one of the top players there, or whether you prefer to surround yourself with other high level players, many much better than you. How will you work best? Have you been frustrated in the past playing with musicians who are at a lower level than you? Have you been intimidated by competing with other players in the past? Or will you be inspired by being surrounded by top talent? How do you work best?</p>

<p>Regarding the acquaintance who transferred to a higher level school, I would wonder, why didn’t they stay at UPS? Did they have to move on in order to grow as a musician?</p>

<p>Best of luck to you, and follow your gut instincts.</p>

<p>mmmm before you “take money out of the equation” based on whether or not your parents are fine with paying tuition wherever you decide… </p>

<p>make sure the conversation with your parents includes discussion of whether they are also planning to pay for graduate school if that is needed, summer music programs, travel to auditions, and support while you are looking for employment.</p>

<p>If not, then the follow up question is: if you do not use the money set aside for u/g, can it be used for the above expenses. That will give you substantial financial freedom for many years.</p>

<p>Good point mtpaper … very few families can really take money completely off the table, especially when there are other siblings involved with private schools and/or college.</p>

<p>Make sure your parents and you have that conversation about grad school. Who will be paying for that? If you save money in undergrad, will you be able to apply that to grad or will that money be needed instead for your siblings?</p>

<p>MT-
Nice thought, that is really valuable.</p>

<p>Rachellee- Yes, bard is a dual major, it is why it is a 5 year program, and I hear from the kids there it is really tough to do both. </p>

<p>I agree that money is a factor here and generally is, especially given the fact that when out there it generally takes a long time for a musician to establish themselves enough to have decent financial means…</p>

<p>Here is another way to look at it, given that UPS seems to be full scholarship. As I see it (just my opinion, not claiming special knowledge) I think what this boils down to is how you are as a player. If you are the type of musician who generally does what a friend of mine called “water reaching its level” i.e pretty much floating along with what everyone else is doing, then the financial aspect of UPS may not be worth it, if you end up kind of coasting there (and only you know yourself on this) and let’s say you don’t improve that much, you might not be able to get into a good grad program, so the saving in money might be wasted and maybe it would be better to go to SF at the higher level and be ‘drawn upwards’ so to speak. </p>

<p>On the other hand, if you think you are self driven enough to push yourself and feel that the teacher (who seems to really want you there) is going to make sure you push it, doesn’t let you slack off, helps find you performing opportunities, then UPS could work out fine. </p>

<p>It is hard, because sometimes it is hard to judge these things. Obviously, the fact that they gave you a large scholarship like that and the teacher is pursuing you is not a bad thing, it does indicate that on some level you already are a strong player. </p>

<p>Can I make a suggestion? Talk to the teacher about your concerns with this, being careful not to denigrate the program. Tell her you really like what you see of the school and are happy they are excited to have you there, but also share your concerns about wanting to find ways to challenge yourself,to keep the intensity level up, and ask her if you went there how she envisioned in working with you how to keep the level of intensity up that might be easier at a larger program …or something to that effect, maybe others can suggest a way to say this more diplomatically. For example, she may tell you that she knows of a youth symphony in the area (I know seatle has a really good one, that I believe goes through college) that might supplement the orchestra program at the school, or she may have contacts to allow you to perform routinely at venues outside the school, or might talk about setting a goal of getting you into a major competition, like the Menuhin or something at that level, in a couple of years, to work towards that goal.
This is actually not uncommon even at high level programs, pre college and college, from what I hear from kids in them, teachers often challenge kids with outside programs and opportunities…</p>

<p>…From my perspective (and maybe others will disagree) if you make it a positive, if you say I like the school and am seriously thinking about going there, but want to see what ideas the teacher has to bring yourself to a high level and keep pushing the envelope given the nature of the overall program, it should come off as positive, as a student seriously wanting to work:). Again, see if others have suggestions on whether this is a good idea or not or maybe an approach that seems more diplomatic to them, that isn’t my strong point:).</p>

<p>Thanks musicprnt, I think I’ll follow your suggestion. I’ll email the teacher with quesitons. :)</p>