Here's My Newest Question RE: Music Schools Research

College Majors Music Major
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<p>My husband & I, along w/ S, had our 1st meeting yesterday w/ the HS college counselor to begin answering our questions on the impending college search (he is a rising Jr.). As most of you have already warned me, this would be one sided, academic (vs. music) in nature. It was. The college counselor was very aware of S's heavy involvement in music in & out of HS and knew ahead of time of his desire to major in cello performance. He was very impressed with S's accomplishments and talent. It was a successful interview. He is compiling a list of schools around the country where S might "fit." We should receive it this week to arrange possible late summer visits.</p>

<p>So I suppose it will go without saying that this list will probably only be non-musical schools and will be dependent on S's class rank and GPA. </p>

<p>As I've mentioned before, S has just this year picked up the pace in his academics but his class rank is right at 50% w/ a 3.8 GPA (uw); an A- to B+ student, but he has shown an upward trend and will continue to do so. I never realized how competitive his class was until yesterday. He will need to ace everything - - to get into a decent univ., according to the counselor. The counselor was very reassuring that this will have a positive outcome if it continues on this current track. However, we did leave a little disappointed in that he is in the bottom half of his class.</p>

<p>He is still adamant about a cello performance degree so he will be researching music programs vs. the list the counselor will most likely supply for us. My concern is does S have a worry (or chance) regarding his grades or lack of a higher GPA or class rank? He's starting in the fall with a NU cello professor that has promised to ramp up his lessons and said that once he's done with him in 2 years, he'll be ready to tackle the college audition process. He seems very positive about S's talent but he doesn't know his academic background!!</p>

<p>Thanks in advance.</p>

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<p>rudy'smom- I'm confused. Are you worried about the gpa and academics in terms of music school admission? A 3.8 is not shabby; the 50% rank shows it's a decent school and/or that there are a lot of pretty solid students ahead of him.</p>

<p>Now, in terms of "music schools" - at a straight conservatory (Curtis, Colburn, Julliard, Manhattan, NEC, etc) the grades mean very little. I won't say "nothing", but it's your audition. Period. For the conservatories within a college or university, some place more emphasis on grades than the pure conservatories, some don't for acceptance. It's pretty school specific. (Think Rice, Oberlin, Hartt, Eastman, etc.) Now, that being said, if he is applying as a performance major, then the audition will carry more weight than grades. Some require adnission to both the school and conservatory, but if the music department wants you, you're basically in.</p>

<p>Some of the LACs and state u's may place more weight on grades even for a performance major, some won't. </p>

<p>This begins to fall apart if you're looking at some double majors or dual degrees both within music, or music and an outside discipline. Then academics play a greater weight. It's possible to be admitted to one program and not the other.</p>

<p>Have I confused you totally, or have I misunderstood your question?</p>

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<p>Another school to look at is Bard. They have just started a very impressive Conservatory. The grades you mention should be competitive for Bard, snd Bard is SAT optional. (I believe the Guinieri String Quartet is in reisence).</p>

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<p>Once again, most HS counselors know more about sub-atomic, quantum physics than they do about music schools. Our local HS accumulates ACT and GPA data for every student and where they applied, where they were accepted and where they were rejected. In the case of music performance applicants, this makes for some very amusing comments like, "I just can undertand this. Joey was rejected from Juilliard with his 34 ACT and 4.5 GPA, but Sally go in with her 21 ACT and 3.0 GPA!" This is an actual quote...</p>

<p>As violadad and others have said, if it's straight performance at a conservatory, S's cello will do the talking at the audition. Some schools that have conservatories within the school like IU and Lawrence, require that you get accepted to both the school and the conservatory. It all depends on where you apply and please DO NOT use the GC's list as gospel since they are often made with the type of flawed logic I pointed out above.</p>

<p>The one thing you should be glad about is that many schools look to see how progress has been going. Kicking things in after Freshman year is a good thing if the growth stays constant. They will often overlook a poor Freshman year in these circumstances.</p>

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<p>A personal experience relating to admission and grades, involving GPA, class rank, and the same (double) major/school going back to auditions 2001/2002/2003.</p>

<p>School is Hartt. All three kids applied performance/music ed double major, although the other two were a year behind S.</p>

<p>My son (viola), NHS, 3.79 GPA, 1350 SAT top 10% of class, 5 AP's all 5's. Extremely solid performer, local/youth symphony/state music awards and accolades.</p>

<p>Freind A (cello), NHS, slightly better overall academics than my kid. Some local/state music recognitions. </p>

<p>Freind B (violin), 2.75 gpa if he was lucky. No AP's. If he got 1100 on SAT he was lucky. Fantastic performer. A few local competition wins, scholarships. Needed technical guidance and some directed instruction, but it was like this kid was born with a violin in his hands.
I would go out of my way to see him play. Pure raw talent that needed refinement.</p>

<p>Son nailed audition, was admitted. Freind A blew his... completely... rejected, couldn't even get in the straight music ed program with his grades because of his audition. He was/is a good player. He had a bad audition.
Freind B nailed his as well. They gave him full scholarship. </p>

<p>For performance, it's the audition.</p>

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<p>If a performance major, the grades, gpa etc. will matter very little at most conservatories. I was just about at the 50th precentile, had a gpa of about 3.2 and pretty good SATs. I got into Oberlin, NEC, CCM, Peabody, Ithaca, and B.U., got waitlisted at Eastman. Rejected Curtis and Mannes.</p>

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<p>violadad – yes, I am worried about the gpa and academics in terms of music school admission or any school admissions. When the counselor started the sentence with “Now, here’s where it gets really awkward” and continues with the 50 percentile rank, 3.8 GPA, etc., it made us all feel that S. was certainly inadequate. But then again, I suppose he was comparing him to others in his class. He even projected his ACT at approx. 25. (Cold sweat & feelings of nausea at that point.)</p>

<p>You know, I’m still searching for reassurance in this music school process. As everyone has probably already guessed, this is an “only child.” New to current college procedures and the music makes it so much more complicated. We feel as if we are treading water without a life raft. </p>

<p>Thanks mythmom. We will check out Bard. News to me!</p>

<p>ImperialZepplin, our school has really no music students other than just a handful, so they don’t have the experience in recommending music schools. It's a very large school, strong in athletics and most want to attend U of I. I do know that when S. starts in the fall with the new cello professor, he will be able to guide us. I’m just very nervous. But then again in the past when he auditioned for CYSO or Honors, he made it without a worry in the world. </p>

<p>Just so everyone knows, I am very conscience not to reveal my worry or concern to my S. so there is no extra pressure. I’m sure he worries enough as it is about this process.</p>

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<p>voicestudent, that's great news! That helps so much.
Thanks.</p>

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<p>Let me reassure you, you really need not be worried. Yes, college admission is competitive. But realistically, his stats now are solid. They're not stellar. But they're fine. I doubt he's the village idiot. And he has a talent. He's a rising junior. Could his stats get him into State U if he maintains them? Probably.</p>

<p>Off the top of my head, without hearing him play, and without looking up current academic minimums, maybe Rice, Oberlin, Rochester could be iffy based on stats alone. But if you're talking music disciplines, particularly performance based, it really is the audition. </p>

<p>My advice... make your long list. 6, 8, a dozen. Narrow it down and really look into the specific academic admission requirements of each. And make sure you also look at the associated music school as well for their interpretation. If you have specific questions, talk to the admissions area within the music school. They'll tell you specifically how low they can go.</p>

<p>ImperialZepplelin makes great points. Most GC's know less than doodley-squat about music admissions. It means more to most schools that they send a dozen to Ivy's, a few to MIT, a couple to the service academies than 2 to Juilliard, 1 to Curtis, and 2 to Oberlin, Peabody or Rice. It's fairly unimportant in the overall scheme, so there's little incentive for them to know.</p>

<p>My daughter wanted a very specific animal care degree. GC's had no clue. There's basically no need for them to know. But we found 'em. (all 3 of them).</p>

<p>Use your son's new studio teacher. Check with YO alums and parents. This board is full of experience, far greater than mine</p>

<p>Perhaps a thread titled "Master list of stats for admitted performance/music disciplines..." might alleviate some of your concerns.</p>

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<p>If I'm not mistaken, Bard requires all music majors to take a second, non music degree as well. Not necessarily a bad thing, but not necessarily for all either. <a href="http://www.bard.edu/conservatory/curriculum/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.bard.edu/conservatory/curriculum/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>The Colorado Quartet is the quartet in residence. </p>

<p>The conservatory is fairly new, two or three years old. They have some very respected faculty.</p>

<p>Edit: Eugene Drucker, Peter Wiley and Michael Tree of the Garneri are listed as faculty; John Dalley is not.</p>

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<p>As others have said, the audition is the thing. An unweighted 3.8 is nothing to sneeze at. My daughter got into Oberlin Conservatory with a weighted 3.9 (about 3.6 unweighted) and mid-1300 SAT's. Once in the Conservatory there, it is easy to transfer into the double degree program.</p>

<p>Investigate Bard carefully. Depending on the student, it may be wonderful or not so great. I know some people who are very happy there and I also know a couple who are frustrated at how long it is taking to bring the program up to speed. For example, they have a chamber orchestra but not a complete symphonic orchestra and the voice program is only at the grad level last I heard.</p>

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<p>Violadad: I've enjoyed your posts and your support of other parents.</p>

<p>rudysmom: I second, third and fourth posters who say you don't need to worry. We had opposite scenerio. S had stellar academics (97% average, 34 ACT) but his performance skills are nowhere near where your son's are. (He plays viola, violin and piano.) S wants to be a doctor, but he also wants to be a music major. Made many all county orchestras but not All-State. He does compose. We didn't want him to have to audition and become discouraged. We needed a school that was academically challenging, musically interesting and that the music department would want him. You might think our process was easier, but it really wasn't. We experienced a lot of anxiety as well. We did have a happy outcome. S is not going to Bard, but we did have a good experience with them. He was accepted at Bard but rejected at the Conservatory. The director of the C. contacted us and explained that people would be willing to work with him. It was kind of him.</p>

<p>The point is, wherever their talent lies, they will find the place to show it. The GC should not have made you doubt your son. Both my kids had to come to terms with the fact that they did not have talent to be performers (ballet and music) so they moved on to more cerebral careers (law and medicine).</p>

<p>Congratulations on having such a gifted son. It will be fine.</p>

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<p>Thank you. I feel better.</p>

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<p>One thing that I picked up from your post. That NU cello professor is not going to have two years to get your son up to speed. He will have to have audition material ready no later than January of senior year and possibly as soon as November. That will give him a little over one year. The cello prof should realize this, but you will want to make sure he or she knows your son is a rising Junior not a rising Sophomore.</p>

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<p>violadad: I am mortified at my spelling.</p>

<p>violadad and BassDad: I bow to your greater knowledge and experience in music auditions. Rudysmom could not have better advisors.</p>

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<p>I'd just like to add this to the good advice here: While applying to a music school in a university usually means you have to be accepted by both the music school and the university, doing well in the audition can help gain acceptance to the university. An applicant with good but not outstanding academic stats who has a very good audition and is wanted by the music school has a much better chance at being accepted by the university than an applicant with similar academic stats who is not a musician. </p>

<p>This is an important consideration as your son continues high school. At many points in the next couple years, there may be competition between music and academics in regard to time, focus, and expectations. With my D, she took care of business with her academics but the priority was music. She wanted to be a performance major and came to that goal rather late (her sophomore year), so she had a lot of work to do. We realized that music would be her ticket to the type of selective university with a good music program she had her eyes on, so neither I nor she put much pressure on her to get good grades. The strategy was good audition + decent academics = acceptance at a good university, and it worked. My advice is don't push on both fronts, despite how the counselor makes you feel. Good luck!</p>

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<p>It's hard to imagine that a kid with a 3.8 is in the bottom half of the class! An A- average is bottom 50%? That makes no sense at all! My son, with an unweighted 3.7 was admitted to National Honor Society, which I think just nominates the top 10 or 25%. </p>

<p>Your son's stats sound just fine!</p>

<p>I will echo what everyone has said about whatever "advice" you get from the high school GC. I long ago determined that we know way more about music schools (thanks CC!) than she does, and she will be useful for writing the counselor recommendation only. I would take any list offered by a GC, regarding music schools, with a grain of salt.</p>

<p>Your son will have a year and a half with the new teacher to prepare audition materials. That should be sufficicent, although I don't know cello repertoire.</p>

<p>Good luck to him. His academic record certainly is solid enough for any music school, as long as he has a great audition!</p>

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<p>mythmom- Thanks. As I've said, we did this back in 2001 with no musical background, no guidance, no clue. In hindsight, might have done a few things differently. I stumbled in here in December '06, completely by accident. I wish we had the resources, insights and depth of knowledge the posters on this forum can offer when we started way back when. I'm more than happy to aid if I can.</p>

<p>It's not the spelling, it's the typing. I do it all the time. (adnission, Garneri as opposed to admission, Guarneri). I'm sure if I reread this later there'll be a few. Damn it Jim, I'm a parent, not a proofreader.</p>

<p>BassDad is in a class by himself. Think of principal. I'm last chair alternate.</p>

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<p>Principal? Who, me? I'm not even a playing member of the orchestra. I'm more like support staff relaying first-hand experiences from the real musicians in the family.</p>

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<p>As everyone has stated, the good news is the GC is wrong. Grades and SATs will not play a role in acceptance into a music performance program. The bad news is the GC is wrong. High School GC's rarely know anything about music programs. You and your son will need to be more self-sufficient. The best course is to work with the music teacher on assessing ability and possible conservatories/colleges. There is a wealth of information on this forum. Spend some time reading past threads, if you have not already done so.</p>