@true_boysenberry base your decisions on reality and what is best for you, not on peers who are not in your current situation.
Duke is a top notch school. Everyone knows the name. The program is ABET accredited and you will be able to do what you want to do.
You don’t want to attempt the GRE again, with good reason. Don’t put life on hold any longer, working a job you hate, for the unlikelihood of getting in somewhere “better” in a year.
P.S. Maybe you could be concerned about rankings if you were considering an engineering degree at East Podunk University. But this is Duke. And it ranks very highly indeed. It will get you where you want to go.
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As I noted above, you have to be careful regarding some Duke University masters degree programs.
Duke’s entire Mechanical Engineering Masters Program reports a total of 40 students–29 of whom are International Students. Placement data & salary are not disclosed, or, at least,are the most concealed among the top 20 ME masters degree programs.
Duke ME masters degree program has the highest percentage of International Students (72.5%) among the top 20 ME masters degree programs. This hints at low pay in the interest of getting a STEM degree in order to be able to work in the US for a few years.
Top 20 ME masters degree programs ranked by percentage of International Students (a high percentage with easy admission requirements is a sign of a “cash-cow” program):
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Duke 72.5% International Students
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U Penn 66%
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Columbia 65.5%
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CMU 63.9%
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UC-San Diego 61.3%
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USC 59.5%
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Michigan 57.7%
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Purdue 52.1%
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UC-Berkeley 52%
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Rice-50% (tiny program of just 12 or 14 masters students)
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U Wash-Seattle 45.9%
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Northwestern 45%
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Stanford 36.5%
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WashUStL 35.8%
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Georgia Tech 33.3%
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Cornell 32.9%
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Wisconsin 31.66%
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MIT 30%
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UCLA 27.4%
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Johns Hopkins 25.5%
Of course, several factors enter in to one’s choice of programs in addition to job placement results. Specialization concentrations offered, cost of attendance, scholarship awards, and ease of admission are some other factors.
Because Duke’s ME masters program is small, the program may attract a limited number of recruiters due to need to sponsor a non-citizen or due to the fact that some International Students seek placement abroad. The good news is that Duke has an undergraduate engineering school that brings recruiters to campus.
Among the top 20 ME masters degree programs, Stanford & MIT report the highest salaries.
Most kids I went to school with didn’t get jobs through recruiters.
Not sure why you are directing this comment to me.
On campus recruiting is different than using a recruiter (a head hunter).
Maybe one of my posts was unclear; if so, I apologize.
How did the students with whom you are familiar get jobs if not through on-campus recruiting ?
I meant on campus recruiting is not essential. We got jobs through recommendations of professors and contacting companies ourselves.
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So - above average scores (not that it matters at this point).
What constitutes “above average” has different meanings depending upon the context.
The quant score is below average for the top masters in engineering programs even though it is above the national average of all GRE test takers.
Hello! Thank you for the statistics but im afraid this has confused me once again. I never even knew about this international ratio or “cash-cow” programs and I am a little frustrated they do not make this information common knowledge.
So I looked up the admission statistics from the last year and it seems 51% got accepted but the average GPA was 3.7 which is pretty high I thought for the average. Similar GRE scores were pretty high (168Q and 160V for average). So…does this mean I didn’t earn my acceptance? It was “easy”. But I thought I was a competitive applicant.
Also my current class for the fall (~10 or so people) has maybe 3 or 4 international students in it. So then that kind of contradicts the data a little bit unless those other peers were just like me.
I mean its not like im not prepared to work hard but I just wanted to put my mind at ease if im going to spend so much money for a masters I thought Duke name would at least make my life a little easier and put my foot in the door for employers. Even if it is a “cash-cow” program, employers would still look at the Duke name and see I worked hard enough to give me a chance right? Otherwise whats the point in spending so much money if its not even going to help me more than my state college
You are correct–it is confusing.
When you enter such a program (small, easy admission, & dominated by International Students), you need to have a clear reason for entering that particular program and a clear understanding of what it will take to secure a job upon completion of the program in line with your career goal. Because you will have about 3 years of related work experience, you should do well in the job search process.
P.S. The GRE numbers that I have are different than what you posted for Duke’s prior ME masters degree candidates. I have mid-range numbers of Math/Quant 163-169 and Verbal 152-161. I also retrieved from Duke’s website numbers of Math 167/ Verbal 154 and GPA of 3.56.
OP: I am just encouraging you to enter the program fully aware of job placement expectations. You need to inquire about job placement and on-campus recruitment.
Also, have you come across the term Double Dukie for this program ?
You should be fine due to your prior work experience and due to the strong demand for robotics-machine learning-artificial intelligence. How you do your job search is something you should discuss with the Duke masters degree program administrators.
Also, be aware of the opportunity cost of attending a masters degree program (cost-of-attendance plus foregone wages for the length of the program).
P.P.S. OP: How do you expect to get a job after finishing the masters degree ? Are you relying on on-campus recruitment ? Or sending out resumes to potential employers ? Return to your current employer ? Or ? This is important to think about when making such a significant investment of time & money. Simpy earning a Duke degree is not enough.
Ask about “career resources”, “career events”, “job placement”.
Can I suggest you heed the advice of the majority of people here? Especially the actual engineer, @MaineLonghorn
No, it doesn’t mean you aren’t competitive. It doesn’t mean the program is a cash cow.
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Here is where I found the data, I looked at the 2022-2023 year:
I do not know what Double Dukie means.
So my plan is: Work hard, earn as high a GPA as I can, consult Alumni network + career services, create a portfolio, join robotics clubs on campus if possible and try to earn a leadership position, work part time, go to all the engineering career fairs, send out resumes to linkedin, consult anyone in my personal network (my employer DOES have a robotics division that I can consider as well but it would not be my preferred choice), consult my family (my dad is a data scientist, maybe he has connections as well but not guaranteed).
Thats all I really have as a plan right now
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Thank you, this eases my stress. I think the Duke name will still hold true for employers regardless
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You have a solid plan. Look forward, not backwards.
Re: your employer-- don’t forget, a lot of your colleagues are going to leave your current employer and go somewhere else while you’re in grad school. They are a terrific source for new leads- so keep those contacts and network current. Even if you don’t want the robotics division at your current company, anyone you’ve worked with who thinks you have solid skills has the potential to refer you!
Good luck- excited for your reboot!
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If you are unfamiliar with the term “cash cow”, you can google it & you will generate a lot of results.
Broadly speaking, cash cow masters degree programs are non-funded masters programs offered by prestigious universities (especially in the UK Oxbridge, LSE, UCL) which charge high fees and deliver a poor ROI (return on investment) because they are not required for certain jobs.
A quick google search will reveal many discussions about cash cow masters degree programs. Very common among prestigious US universities in addition to elite UK universities.
Have you calculated your expected ROI for the Duke ME masters degree program ?
Thank you for the Duke University charts. A cautionary sign is that the yield rate for the
Duke ME & Material Sciences program was just a bit over 8%. This is not good.
The most common cash cow programs in the US are law schools. Many law school graduates incur very large amounts of student loan debt. Even though a law degree is required in almost all US jurisdictions in order to practice law, there are not enough high paying positions for attorneys to absorb all the law school graduates each year. About 40% end up in positions that do not require a law degree.
How would I calculate my ROI, I thought if I could land a robotics/ML job at a large tech company with the connections and hard work I’d be making a good amount. So you think the program is not good?
MBA programs are cash cows-- they are VERY cheap to teach, and most students pay full freight even for adjuncts or sub-par faculty. That doesn’t mean that for a particular student it’s a bad deal, and for someone trying to pivot professionally, it may be a FANTASTIC deal-- even if it’s a money-maker for the university.
Publisher- this student isn’t talking about a three year law degree at a third tier school which has abysmal bar passage rates. This is a working professional who knows exactly what he wants to study and has a plan to get there.
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OP- my family member did his masters in engineering at Duke, but it was in a different program within engineering. He began the program after having worked for a few years.
He had no problem getting a job. He still keeps in touch with his professors and was invited to sit on a graduate committee. He enjoyed his time there and has absolutely no regrets about attending Duke. He applied to 3 schools and was accepted to all 3 (GT, BU, Duke).
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I do not know enough about you and I do not know enough about Duke’s placement of its ME masters degree students in order to offer definitive advice or guidance. This is why I stress that you need to discuss job placement & employment prospects with the administrators of your particular masters degree program. I am concerned that Duke does not show average starting salary for graduates of this masters degree program since almost all other such programs do. Without any reasonable understanding of your expected earnings after the program, you cannot calculate an ROI.
How much will you pay to attend this masters degree program ? Add up tuition, fees, room & board, books and supplies for the length of the masters degree program. Then add on your lost wages for that time period (opportunity cost). These costs are then offset by your expected increase in earnings over the next 5 years. Or any number of years. How long will your it take for your increased earnings to replace your lost income. Whether or not you add in the time value of money is up to you.
Cash cow degrees are typically offered by elite universities. Columbia University has received a lot of negative press in this area. Some think that the concept is most prevalent in the UK, but it is quite common in the US. Basically, unfunded masters degree programs that are not required for a particular field of employment. Law schools are also cash cows for universities because the cost of adding additional students at high tuition rates is tiny even though employer demand cannot support the number of newly minted attorneys each year.
I have nieces and nephews who attended such masters programs at Cambridge in the UK and at Duke.
Cash cow degree programs can make sense for some if they have a job lined up in the family law firm or other business.
I think you should stop there, then.
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