It looks like the tipping point for my S’s college decision is coming down almost exclusively to student culture/vibe/character. And I’m a bit concerned he’s overreacting to the extremely limited cues he has experienced so far and that none of the schools on his short list are going to be meaningfully better for what he wants anyway.
We just got back from the Middlebury Preview Days. His experience the first day was pretty good but after the overnight it had dropped down on his list. There was no problem – the host was perfectly nice and he was in a room with a bunch of other prospective students too. But he said of the 12-15 current and prospective students he spent real time with, to the last one they all talked about liking to have drinking parties and do recreational drugs. And that’s just not his thing. It exists at his high school too of course but he’s found a pretty large group that also aren’t into it and fill their time with cooking parties, games, playing the Wii, movies, outdoor stuff, etc. He doesn’t care what others do but got the impression he would be an extreme outlier there by not being into that. He said a few of the current students claimed the student body is divided into three main groups - “Bros” (i.e. jocks/preppies), “Nerds” (hardcore only-have-time for study and nothing else) and “normal” but that normal still meant likes to party hard. “Work hard, play hard” was evoked by multiple students. My S’ wants to "work reasonably hard, play moderately. " But he’s energized by time with his friends and doesn’t want to end up isolated.
Unfortunately he couldn’t make it to the admitted student days for most of the other schools on his short list so he may be unfairly discounting Midd for something that would be no better or even worst (from his perspective) at those schools. Those schools include Wesleyan, William & Mary and a few others.
Anyone have perspective on this? In the abstract we have discussed the “everyone finds there place” and there’s going to be all kinds of people. But it’s hard to argue with his “I met 15 different people and they all were the same” first-hand experience.
He knows by rep that Wesleyan is likely to be at least as bad on the drinking and drugs culture but he somehow thinks it will be less “Bro” heavy – not sure if that’s right or fair. He seems to have moved W&M back up his short list out of the belief that they more embrace “nerdy” (but not “try-hard” hardcore study-only nerds) than the others, based on his experience with a couple other previous alums of his high school. Thoughts?
Hey @citivas! Current freshmen at Midd here. First, I just want to say that I’m so sorry your son got the impression he did. I (and many other students) would disagree with what those 15 students said, and I definitely don’t think what they said is representative of the culture at Midd whatsoever. There is certainly drinking and some drugs (I think mostly weed but I don’t really know that much because it’s not that prevalent! and I would say that drinking is much more popular than using recreational drugs) just like any other college campus. But I can assure you that your son will NOT be an outlier at Midd. Yes, some students party every weekend but it really doesn’t get out of hand, especially freshmen year. There are many people who only go out occasionally (and there’s no pressure to drink) and there are so many other things people do on weekends besides parties. There are free Friday films every Friday night that students can go to, or they can rent a movie from the library and watch it in Axinn’s black box theater! Some students in my dorm are always baking…cookies, churros, whoopie pies, Chinese food, etc! Students will hang out just talking or listening to music. There are student performances all the time on weekends (I’ve been to a jazz concerts, several hip hop dance performances, and an international cultural show). Each freshman dorm has a CRA (Commons Residential Advisor - a recent grad who lives in a freshmen dorm). On weekend nights, my CRA’s door is always open and people hang out watching movies, talking, and eating snacks. I never partied/went out in high school. I don’t party hard in college. I’ve been out a couple times for fun, but I also have spent many weekends going to events and hanging out with friends. I am someone who works hard, and has fun on weekends without “playing super hard.” Your son WILL find friends and people who share his interests. BTW, I think Wesleyan’s culture is even more of a “bro” culture than Midd and has way more drinking/drug problems. Plus, they have Greek life. Students at Midd have so many interests and backgrounds and enjoy having fun in different ways.
(I mean this in all seriousness)…please message me privately if you or your son would like to talk with me on the phone or by email. I would be happy too!!!
I think your son will find a like minded group of friends wherever he goes and all three schools are very good. Ultimately it should come down to the academics he thinks he be interested in, the setting of the school and of course the feel/vibe he gets. You can’t really discount the ‘gut’ feel. That is why its very important to visit the schools and if possible stay overnight. There are many mistaken impressions and stereotypes that people throw out. For instance, my daughter felt the Jock culture was central to the Midd experience, whereas Jocks are not really a factor at all at Wes. As for the partying, drinking, drugs, etc… funny enough of all the colleges we visited the only place we smelled marijuana during the tour was at Midd, really… and it was a bright sunny February mid week day too!.. So bottom line all three of these schools will have a mix of students that your child will naturally become friends with and he has three great choices. He can go to any one of these schools and never get involved in drinking, drugs or deal with Jocks if that is what he wants. Lastly, one point of clarification, there are no longer at Frats at Wes. There are still the old Frat buildings but they are all co-ed houses now.
There is very little “bro” culture at Wesleyan; it is more divided by “artsy alternative” and “normal,” with the latter becoming more prevalent lately. I would say “tolerant” is probably an apt description.
I have a freshman daughter at Midd. She avoided the party culture throughout high school and purposely avoided applying to schools with strong Greek party type reputations. She knew ahead of time that kids definitely partied at Middlebury but she wasn’t too concerned about the social atmosphere given that there is usually something to do other than go to dorm parties if that’s what she would prefer… and there are many Middkids happy to avoid those parties as well. Having said that, she has definitely gone to her fair share of parties over the course of the year. She also goes to concerts, productions, performances, movies, lectures, house dinners/gatherings, so many events on campus. She has even spent a few weekends camping this winter (yes it has been a mild one in VT). She has had no problem navigating the social scene, and this is from a kid who considers the "bro"party culture a big turnoff.
Bottom line, yes your son will run into “bros” at Middlebury. There will be partying in the dorms, and some kids will be smoking pot. And there will be a ton of kids who like to “occasionally” party and many who do not drink/party at all. There are all types at Middlebury for sure. Most importantly from the social scene perspective, my daughter could not believe how quickly she made friends, actually crazy close soul mate type friends. She wasn’t expecting to find her people so quickly and easily, but it happened for her and has made the transition into this young adult life that much easier. She has had a phenomenal freshman year, has loved her classes, and is deeply attached to Middlebury. It’s going to be a long summer for my Middkid
My daughter just returned from the Preview Days, too, and was so delighted with the experience that she begged us to send in the deposit today! We did. My daughter also stayed overnight and said was impressed with how genuine and friendly everyone was. She even mentioned that she was relieved that she didn’t detect any overt cliquey culture. Sure, the student sponsors might be selected because of their Middlebury enthusiasm, but she said she could not have imagined a better experience - including great weather! She went to classes, ate in all of the dining areas, listened to the speeches and had some fun at night. Before we sent in the money, my husband asked her “are you sure you are ready to be a granola-eating, Birkenstock-wearing, AT-hiking, Green Mountain loving, politically independent, democratic-socialist polyglot?” She just laughed and said “sure thing, Dad…” In reality, we could not be happier with her choice and are both a little envious just thinking about the four years she has ahead of her at Middlebury!
Congrats! We’re so excited to welcome your daughter to Midd next year! It is an exciting place (and my parents feel the same way - a little envious!). Best wishes to you and your daughter as she finishes senior year and looks forward to college
hello, My son is graduating in a month and my next one starts in the fall. Yes, there is drinking but no more than at any other college. Please PM me with any questions
good luck
Hey! I’m also an admitted student and I just came home from the Midd Preview Days. Although some of the dorms smelt like alcohol, drinking definitely isn’t the only option students there have to socialize. I’m not huge into drinking and I made four friends during Preview Days who also said that they aren’t into drinking. We actually asked several current students if we would be bored on campus or feel isolated from parties if we didn’t drink much, and they all pretty much said the same thing–there’s always plenty of other things to do on campus if you don’t wanna get drunk, and that they have friends who show up to parties sober and still have a good time.
I think that your son is definitely not alone on not being a huge drinker so I wouldn’t worry too much about the drinking culture:) from the surface it just seems that everybody drinks, because the drinkers talk about how much they love drinking and partying which makes them stand out but generally no one goes around announcing that they are straight edge.
This is a tough one. For D #1 we were on a tour-- prospective students’ day, no less – when in the first floor lobby of the dorm they took us to, students were openly sharing weed on a Monday at 12 noon. It went off the list.
S #1 is abstemious to the point of no alcohol, no meat and no caffeine. He was adamant about campus life being a place where he could “find his people”.
Wes has that rep of drug use, no doubt. The news for the last few years has been pretty shocking. However, if it is bigger, more diverse, more active and has more housing and student activity options, it would be easier to for your S find his place. I always wonder if places like Wes and Oberlin are being singled out in the media or if their reputations are deserved. It is hard to know without input from actual students who are on campus (which is why this website is so helpful).
It must be hard for you because campus vibe should be part of the decision – but it sounds like you think academics, not campus vibe, should be the deciding factor. It also comes down to how much input parents / students get.
Please keep us up to date on your S’s thoughts and impressions. He is very fortunate to have such excellent options. Congratulations to him, and to you.
Thanks for all the replies so far (even more are welcome). To be clear, we as his parents think all the schools left on his list are excellent and more or less comparable academically, so we’re not worried about that at this point. We’re fine for him to want to make a decision based on things like vibe. The concern (which he himself shares) is more whether he is drawing too many conclusions from his very limited experience and whether he would make a decision to go to say Wes because he had a bad preview day at Midd only to discover it no different, or potentially worse by his criteria at Wes. It’s too bad he couldn’t attend WesFest but it just wasn’t possible. I think he also got unlucky with his pairing. Again, I think the people he met sound perfectly nice, just not his crowd. The dorm was a suite and even had a room dedicated to beer pong. If that same room had had a TV with a Wii setup for Super Smash Bros tournaments I think he’d be committed by now.
Hey @momcinco when did you squeeze in that visit to Middlebury? I just read a quote from you on another thread where you wrote, “Just visited Bowdoin, OP, what a great place, Can’t speak to Midd, haven’t seen it, but it also sounds good.” That was just three weeks ago.
@citivas It sounds like your son was paired with an upperclassmen? Freshmen don’t have suites, they are in doubles in freshmen-dorms so people aren’t doing drugs and throwing parties there. I wish your son had been matched with a freshmen in a standard double in a freshmen dorm to sense what a first year dorm is like. It is really great, a very friendly and supportive environment, and pretty low key hanging out (although there are the occasional freshmen boys who do manage to squeeze a pong table in their room, it certainly is NOT the majority and you do not have to participate!). When students become upperclassmen, they have more choices of where to live, so some people may live with friends who plan to drink more, while others can either get a single, a suite with friends, or live in a special interest housing (there are so many cool options!). Please message me privately if you would like to talk more. I would also be happy to talk on the phone with your son or email with him (I am a current freshman at Midd). Best wishes!
Also, just fyi…I attended a prospective student day at another school and was paired with a student who had an entire bookshelf of hard liquor and everyone was talking about drinking. I was kind of worried, but realized that yes, people at college are going to do that, but not everyone. I realized that the school had a good overall social environment despite my first impression of the person with all the hard liquor. I didn’t end up going there based on other factors (money, super far away, etc.) but not because of my biased, false impression of the party scene.
@collegehelpcp I am pretty sure that some freshman (men) have “suite style” rooms in Ross- I believe they are doubles but in a suite arrangement (total of 6 students? Maybe 8?). Friends of our family have a freshman son and I am pretty sure he was put in a “suite” on the upper floor of Ross. Of course I could be completely wrong but when OP started this thread I envisioned those students in Ross in a suite style set up.
Many colleges don’t offer specific substance free first year housing as they group freshman in specific dorms and assume and expect, based on age of students, that drinking, etc. is not taking place, including having no alcohol policies. We all know, however, that the reality is different and enforcement varies from school to school. (I’d argue that schools that are strict in enforcing the policy just drive drinking in secrecy and that pregaming leads to binge drinking and more risk but that is a discussion for another thread.)
Ross has mostly doubles and singles for freshmen, as well as suites with a double and single, plus a small common room open to the entire hall. Ross also has a wing for upperclassmen housing, which has larger suites/apartment style
urbanslaughter, – sorry if it was unclear. I haven’t visited Midd – yet .
H’s niece visited Midd last month on her whirlwind tour of East Coast colleges and her favorite was Midd. She loved the campus and what she saw / heard about activities, programs, etc.
Way back in the day, my college roommate did a summer at Midd for Chinese and then spent couple of years in China after graduation. Of course that was only a summer, and it was 25 years ago…
Back to the topic, this is a great thread because it addresses two really important questions,
– how much weight should first impressions on visit days be given?
– how can students feel confident they can find their own place?
