And to add to MwF’s fine post- we all use “flagship university” as a code- yes, the primary public institution in every state. But you have a flagship like U Michigan which is bringing in revenue from research grants, patents and IP, owning commercial property around the university with long term leases, etc. You cannot really compare this solid economic base (with recurring revenue) to WVU. So of course- horrifying that a “flagship” would cut all foreign languages. But would you feel the same way if this were Southern CT State? U Mass Lowell?
I think one of the historians on this thread could do a deep dive and research how the faculty reacted when universities pivoted from being a training ground for clergy (Harvard?) and became what we know to be a modern university. I imagine it was quite traumatic for the instructors in Greek, Latin, Aramaic, Biblical Hebrew to be downgraded (and siloed off into a Department of Classics and Divinity School). The academic consequences- plus the shift in student body- must have been stunning. And yet- survival as an institution.
Or more recently- Princeton and Yale accepting women?
The current cost-cutting is not the only instance where institutions have faced “change or die”.
I agree, but a poster brought up double majors, so if I’m an analyst, my first question is, ‘how many are there?’ And then the second question is, ‘do we keep teh FL program for the handful of double majors per year when enviromental science students can’t get classes?’
The law of supply and demand is a far too simplistic view for running a large university. While cutting a low-enrollment department seems straightforward, these departments don’t exist in a vacuum. Lack of FL degrades the value of other majors, like international business. There are countless similar examples.
If the decisions were as obvious as you suggest, there would be no need for a consultant…other than to make them the bad guy.
I was in BigConsulting for awhile, and my favorite partner once said: there are 3 reasons why clients hire us (and pay our exorbitant fees): 1) the CEO (is generally new) and really doesn’t know what to do, so is seeking advice: 2) the CEO has some ideas, but does not have the internal staff to crunch the numbers quickly so hires us for our analytics capability; or 3) the CEO knows what they want to do, but needs an outsider for cover to the Board.
Its a tough situation at WVU that could cause the university to spiral downward over the next few years without a big cash infusion from state coffers. The annual deficit is projected to grow to an astounding $75 million per year in 5 years if nothing is done. Huge cuts like those proposed are likely to scare away students especially those from out of state and thus make WVU’s situation more dire over the coming years.
Reminder that this is not the political forum and replies to flagged/hidden posts will be deleted. Posters are welcome to start a new thread in the PF to discuss the politics of WV. Thank you.
ETA: And you adding in things like Princeton and Yale admitting women is weird whataboutism, since those are meaningfully different from eliminating majors, even if you look at it merely from the point of view that one increases educational opportunities and the other reduces them.
The problem with this position is that the adjective “poor” is doing a lot of unspoken work.
What is a “poor recommendation”? From the point of view of WVU’s upper administration, massive cuts to academic departments while leaving upper administration completely unscathed is most definitely not a poor recommendation, but from the point of view of the faculty, staff, and students affected (both directly and indirectly) by the cuts? Yep, poor recommendations, most certainly—but they’re not the ones who hired the consultants, are they?
I wasn’t drawing an analogy between cutting departments and admitting women. Merely pointing out that the faculty was horrified (some members, of course others were excited) by this “unilateral” decision by the administration to admit women.
To repeat a point: not only was the faculty NOT consulted but even the Administration that knows each college (Deans) had their objections or other proposals overruled. Again: even the Administration disagreed. It’s not just a Faculty v. Administration issue.
This is not the way to go.
Wrt un seriousness if some proposals, vide : recommendation of cutting the graduate program that supplies instructors for math -WV is not a State that crawls with qualified math instructors - or letting go of part time faculty … that happens to be teaching the very courses they say need to be emphasized.
Faculty in targeted departments were asked to provide self-reviews and plans for how to make up their programs’ portions of the shortfalls. They did so, and their plans were rejected out of hand or ignored. (Source: People I know in one of the targeted departments, who have also shared their review and plan, it and others are available online if you search.)
So please stop claiming that the faculty didn’t provide plans, and do a bit more research into the process that was used.
Hey, I’m willing to concede that perhaps the consultants are wrong, wrong wrong.
OK- so then what? I don’t vote in WV; am not an alum or an employee, am not a stakeholder in any way shape or form. So other than wincing “this could be my state flagship in a decade”-- perhaps there’s stuff that can be learned from this experience?
An unserious, unworkable proposal that isn’t rooted in the university’s identity as a flagship and as representative of WV doesn’t count. A plan that promises it’s going to review more depts later but doesn’t look at Higher Ed in the State is pointless.
The proposal as is is indefensible.
(If anything counts, I can charge 500k for sth equally stupid and unworkable, too. Yay )
Seriously, let’s see if there are alternative proposals, negotiations, etc.
It IS a serious problem and slashing indiscriminately doesn’t solve anything.
If so, why don’t they publicize those alternatives? Gather support for them? Do any of the actions one might expect other than complain?
Well past time the grad math program at WVU was cut-really how could they even ethically offer this? Not even one of the top 100 programs in the country; graduates unemployable in academia and industry. Faculty can find its own cheap labor from now on.
There are competing interests to just WVU identity as a flagship. Maybe those other schools offer much needed jobs in small towns. Maybe they appeal to and are more accessible to minorities. In short, WVU is just one player and its welfare will not always win out.
Absolutely, that’s what I mean.
Looking at WVU on its own makes no sense.
Cutting sth w/o looking at impact (teaching, learning, state needs…) makes no sense.
The entire Higher Ed system needs to be looked at and articulated.
For ppl who know academia, the fact Deans were overruled means faculty (or students) aren’t even in the picture and that sth is very wrong.
It can be if it’s an emergency. And more importantly, if you have hard cold data that shows few FL majors, the dept is automatically on the chopping block. No need to speak with thier faculty.
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