<p>Defense Secretary Robert Gates announces a broad range of cuts to weapons spending, saying he plans to cut programs ranging from a new helicopter for the president to ending production of the $140 billion F-22 fighter jet. </p>
<p>Remember too, the process. “The President proposes; the Congress disposes.” Congress still has a say in the final outcome, so it will be interesting to see what happens in the end.</p>
<p>Undercover the reason for the increase of the JSF is that the Navy will also be flying it, and we are selling it to our allies. The increase is purely a $$ game, it is cheaper to have two branches flying the 1 airframe, than having ea service fly 2 airframes.</p>
<p>The JSF also gives an additional edge. We are selling it to India, Australia, China, Finland, Spain, etc. When the 35 gets upgraded, the US will determine who gets to buy the upgrade after we already upgraded the jet. If they don’t play well, the govt steps in and tells Lockheed you can’t sell to them. That means we will never lose our air superiority. Pretty hard to get a jet up in the air, if you don’t have the parts. The lag time alone to make those parts will take yrs.</p>
<p>For all sakes and purposes that was a smart decision.</p>
<p>BTW increasing the 35 quiets Lockheed and Pratt & Whitney. Both are financially invested on the 22 and 35. By closing the pipeline for the 22, and expanding the pipeline for 35 they did not hurt these 2 companies. There is squawk today about the 22 pipeline, but Lockheed is not taking full page ads in the WaPO like they did 2 months ago! Nobody from Lockheed has even come out to give a comment. They don’t care, the 22 pipeline is closed, the 35 doubled, it still comes out the same in profits!</p>
<p>So based on if F-22 stops production, and I think I heard the joint strike fighter doesn’t roll off the production line until, well I really can’t recall, but thought maybe I heard 2015, what does that put our Class of 2013 flying when they graduate? Tons of news about F-22 here as Lockhead plant in Fort Worth area nearby. What do you think you old Blue Line guys?</p>
<p>The class of 13 had a slim chance if any to see a 22 straight out of UPT! Most 22 pilots for the near future will have x-trained from another fighter, just like they did with the Strike. The F-15/E/16 is a more likely option for future UPT grads. </p>
<p>Please realize that the AD Pilots right now are willing to take very crappy assignments (i.e. remote to Korea) to get in the jet. The AF will give them priority because…A. they have fighter pilot experience…B. they took a crappy assignment. There is absolutely no reason to hand over a mutli-million dollar aircraft to an O-2 straight out of UPT, when they can hand it to an O-3 with operational experience.</p>
<p>That might hurt and quash your dreams, but it is also the reality. Look at the Strike, the pipeline to get it only opened about 10 yrs ago, meanwhile it was in DS1, in 91! From 91-97 they filled with ex- F4 and 111 guys, not UPT grads.</p>
<p>I truly don’t mean to be mean, but sometimes reality is harsh, and it is better to be honest than to fill you with false hope</p>
<p>yep, getting anything “new” or “fun” out of UPT has pretty much always been nonexistant. they’ll give it to the old crusty guys who know what they’re doin first :)</p>
<p>My nephew in training on F-16 at Luke now. In the ENJJPT class before him, was an AFA grad that went went from UPT to train on the F-22. He is training now on the F-22. I know because my son spoke to him at my nephew’s house at Sheppard about my son’s deciding whether to go to the AFA or not. So… it is probably rare but not nonexistant. However, I think most would still consider an F-16 “fun” even if it is not “new”.</p>
<p>ENJJPT is an exception that is the ELITE of the ELITE…all will walk out with fighters, that is not the same for Columbus where only the top 10% get fighters.</p>
<p>While I love new toys for the AF, I think Sec Gates is right to cut these programs. We shouldn’t be spending our defense money on items that will make our AF more dominant in areas that it already hold dominance in - we should be adjusting to the type of warefare we’ve been facing since 2001; thus the increased support for medical, UAS, and F-35 programs, along with continued production for the C-17.</p>
<p>yeah we could have a nice debate on air superiority. my view on it is that we havent been tested with air to air fights in a long time; the closest thing we’ve got is red flag, and i dunno how well they address new threats that’ll be popping up from india, china, and russia soon. so who knows? we’ll find out if it was a good decision when the time comes, eh?</p>
<p>RunAP - Russia and Europe are pumping out the new 5th gen fighters, and selling them off to people like China, India, Syria, etc. Remember when the F-15s were grounded? If anything, our planes are just getting old and need replacement! I think its insane when the average aircraft in the AF is older than the average SHIP in the navy!</p>
<p>Russia exports gen 4.5+ fighters. Their true gen 5 projects are still prototypes (like the SU-47 Berkut and MiG 1.44). Unfortunately, the SU-30MKII, SU-35, etc. are VERY capable air superiority fighters. The British did a simulation and found F-15s and F-16s would be at a significant disadvantage against a modified SU-35 (aka SU-37) in a low-speed dogfight. The three aircraft which beat the Sukhoi in their simulation were the Eurofighter, Rafale, and F-22 (they did not include the F-35).</p>
<p>“…The British did a simulation and found F-15s and F-16s would be at a significant disadvantage against a modified SU-35 (aka SU-37) in a low-speed dogfight.”</p>
<p>Problem here…you’re taught in BFM, and then in ACM, and again in DACT…</p>
<p>SPEED IS LIFE!</p>
<p>You do NOT fight the other guy in HIS regime, you fight in YOUR regime. In my Eagle that means I fly high, I fly fast, and I shoot you in the face from long-range. If the missile that kills you doesn’t come as a surprise, then I didn’t do it right!</p>
<p>Also…“dogfight” would imply a “gun-fight?” Or a “furrball” as we say. BAD BAD BAD!! You do NOT want to be there!!! If you get in that situation you have already screwed up something fierce!</p>
<p>The perfect case in point…everyone speaks about how much better than the F-15 is the F-22. HOWEVER…in the situation the British put the jets in…close-in gun combat or micro missile range…well, I have a nice HUD photo of a Raptor locked in the gunsight of an F-18…he’s toast. Why?</p>
<p>Because his stealth, supercruise, great weapons employment capability…did NOTHING when he went into the merge and got into a knife-fight.</p>
<p>He died.</p>
<p>Don’t let the “spin” get you to thinking our weapons are NOT first rate.</p>
<p>Exactly why an F22 should never get in that knife fight but instead ruin your day at Nellis shortly after he takes off from Edwards, and before you even know he exists.</p>
<p>Can anyone explain to me why we’re selling to China and India (more than just the money)? Seems like very bad political thinking, selling a 5th gen. fighter and ground attack aircraft to India, when we’re trying to work with Pakistan with fighting Al Qaida. Unless they’re going to put that only on the table until Pakistan objects and we tell them to cooperate or we’ll sell.</p>