My daughter is finalizing her college list and would like to add one more LAC where she would have a reasonable chance at obtaining merit aid. Right now her top two choices are Oberlin and Macalester and according to her school’s Naviance data, she has a reasonable chance of admission/merit at both with her stats. However, as admissions is an uncertain business, adding one more school seems like a prudent idea.
D17 loves learning for learning’s sake, has diverse intellectual interests, and does the work that is necessary to succeed academically. She wants to have like-minded peers. She is politically liberal, not religious (but is respectful of people of faith), and her main ECs are dance, music, and creative writing. Zero interest in partying, Greek life, and organized sports. She has done her due diligence on each of these school’s websites with respect to academic programs of interest.
Denison - we visited campus and the town but did not do a formal tour. She liked the look of the place and is attracted by its ongoing efforts to be more diverse and inclusive and serious academically. For those of you who know the campus, how much has Denison moved beyond its former reputation as being dominated by Greek life?
College of Wooster - also did our own tour of the town and campus and she liked what she saw. The senior thesis requirement is attractive to her. Our impression is that it’s a good quality LAC and getting better, also becoming more diverse with respect to both national and international students. Wooster has been showing her the love with the offer of a priority application process and fee waiver.
St. Olaf - despite the fact that she is not particularly religious, we visited because we know a student there (who is an atheist) who has had a good experience there. We did a formal campus tour and info session this summer and she thought it was an option but did not rise to the top. Without a critical mass of students there, it’s hard to discern the student vibe. Personally, I suspect that it might be a bit too politically conservative for her and the curriculum looks more Western European based than is her preference. I also know that it has become more selective in recent years and is by no means a “safety.”
We are based in the mountain west so we won’t be doing any more campus visits until after admissions decisions come out. Any first hand information that you can provide would be appreciated! She will also be applying to Dickinson, CWRU, and maybe WUSTL, as well as two public universities that are true safeties.
Denison is definitely less Greek than it used to be, but I think Greek life is still a relatively strong presence there. But she could also avoid it. I think she’ll find it more “conventional” than her top 2 choices. It is very much of a school on the move - lots to recommend it. We were all really impressed by what they’re doing and the resources to back up those goals. If she’s interested in schools like Oberlin and Macalester, I would think Earlham might be worth a look. Same eclectic vibe but less selective.
Based on what you say, I’d rank these as Wooster, Denison, St. Olaf – both in terms of fit and likelihood of aid.
Your daughter has similar criteria as my son, and we’ve been working on finalizing his list as well. We’ve visited Wooster and Denison, but not St. Olaf. He liked Wooster; Denison not so much. My impression is that St. Olaf is at least a bit more conservative than most of these other midwestern LACs. It does have a religious affiliation, although I don’t think it is too religious. It does require taking two religious courses though. I can’t comment about the greek life at Denison.
Of these schools, I also suspect that Wooster will be the easiest to get into and offer the most aid.
Just today, we’ve been reviewing our final list, with a focus on maximizing merit aid. We took at closer look at both Denison and Wooster. Haven’t made final decisions yet though!
I did not mention that my daughter is looking for LACs that also have dance programs, not to major but to remain active in performance. Of the three, St Olaf’s is the most developed, followed by Denison and then Wooster. So that’s a complicating factor. She loved the idea of Earlham (as well as Lawrence, Beloit, and Clark U) but they either lacked dance offerings or had very meager ones. She put in an inquiry with the dance professor at Wooster to get more information about the program to see if there is more than meets the eye.
Olaf has the edge of Denison and Wooster in music and dance.
Denison and Wooster sound like they are better fits socially. Another LAC that fits the profile in Lawrence in Wisconsin. A good friend of mine’s daughter is really enjoying Lawrence, and has similar interests.
Denison has really moved away from the heavy Greek party scene from 20 years ago. No more residential Greek housing at all.
I’ve looked carefully at these schools recently, and I think they are all good choices. Some things to consider: Case Western seems like a school for smart, serious students, but it does have a big Greek life, but I was looking at the sororities and many of the girls seem to be engineering or premed students. That makes me think that they won’t be the stereotypical sorority girls. Your D might actually want to join in. As for dance, I was very impressed with their course selection. St.Olaf looks like the kind of school that is down to earth. However, I once read that they take a lot of students from the Minneapolis burbs such as Edina, so you might want to get the actual numbers. I think one year they took a large amt. from Edina high. I personally don’t like the idea of too many kids coming from any one school, but that may have just been something that happened one year. Also, once school starts, go to their website and you see that you can click on their webcam which is in the student union. It’s a great way to see many students walking back and forth. I had looked at it, and saw what appeared to be many casually dressed, normal looking college kids. It’s not a fashion show, whiich is very nice. I would have your D maybe reach out to the president of the Democrat club or the LBGT club and ask about there thoughts on how conservative/liberal/open the college is. My guess is that it’s not that conservative anymore.
@citymama9 My sense is that St Olaf still draws very heavily from MN, WI, and the Dakotas, although it has made efforts to achieve greater regional diversity in recent years. St O is introducing non-conforming gender housing this coming year; that said, your suggestion about reaching out to liberal student organizations is very helpful.
We did not look at St Olaf because my kid was not interested in the gen eds which required religion, though we know kids who love it and are very happy there.
We had multiple visits to both Wooster and Denison and can share our impressions. Denison felt, and I think by the numbers, is, more diverse than Wooster, in terms of racial, ethnic, socio-economic and geographic, diversity. There is about 30% Greek life participation – which is comparable to Kenyon. There are no residential Greek life houses, and all students must live on campus, so there are no unofficial “off campus” houses either. It does not seem to dominate campus life. The administration is highly active and engaged – there are new majors, a $17 million new/renovation of music and theater facility breaking ground soon. The student body struck us as balanced – neither super left nor super right. The faculty my kid met with on an admitted students day were dynamic and excited him. Denison uses merit to bring in high-achieving kids – one student he met was choosing between full Denison scholarship and Stanford. On the admitted students FB group, there seem to be kids of all types – politically active, social justice, arts, athletics.
Wooster campus has a different feel as it has town streets running through parts of campus. There is Greek life and I believe it is residential, though many people suggested it is not “traditional” Greek life. There is a terrific, but small, restaurant scene in town, with a couple blocks seemingly dropped there from the hippest parts of Brooklyn. " The new President was Dean of Students at Williams, and I expect a big push to expand the geographic reach of Wooster. All in all, I was impressed that Wooster is a school on the move.
We also visited Kalamazoo, Earlham, Lawrence, Knox etc, lots of terrific schools out there.
Some other thoughts on Wooster/Denison, since I was on my phone before, and it was hard to type . . . .
I was impressed by how strategic Wooster’s organization of student services is – they make a big deal out of how the advising, learning support and career planning offices are all together, in the lower level of the library – I think it is called APEX. That seems like a structure that would make it easy for kids to access services, and to connect among the different functions.
In terms of greek life – I think both schools are around 30% participation, though the structures are different. Wooster’s greek life organizations are not affiliated with nationals, which we’ve heard it contributes to a less “traditional” greek life experience. Denison greek life is all non-residential so it seems to matter to the kids who are in it, but can be ignored by others who are not interested.
Sports seem to be a bigger deal on campus at Denison – Men’s Swimming won the national championship (again), Men’s Lacrosse is highly ranked, and Denison has been recognized for diversity and inclusion in its teams. Then again, the Wooster Marching Band – with bag pipes and kilts – is pretty cool way to open up a football game.
We looked long and hard at both schools, as well as Kalamazoo. Great choices, really comes down to what feel “right” to the specific kid.
I would say St Olaf is definitely the strongest in her areas of interest. Regarding the conservative /liberal spectrum, they’re more liberal than conservative but not anywhere near Oberlin. In my opinion, Denison is more ‘preppy’ if you will, due to all the art/music /dance kids at St Olaf, and the strong environmental awareness/activism.
Wooster is easier to get into than either Denison or St Olaf. In all cases demonstrate interest.
Is Denison more preppy than St Olaf? I don’t know. While you will see plenty of J Crew kids at Denison, you will also see bearded, flannel-wearing folks who live at the Homestead, a student residence located near campus focused on sustainable farming (and has chickens etc). Big Bluegrass scene on campus, with a specialization in blue grass in the Music dept. On our first visit, we saw sorority girls making recruitment posters in the cafe and heard heated political discussions about the middle east. A big focus on campus is living as a diverse community – not simply being diverse, able to check off the right boxes, but about being a diverse community which is connected. It’s not the right school for everyone, but it does seem to be well-balanced in terms of “type” of kid who flourishes there.
FWIW, my daughter is probably a moderate by Oberlin standards. She’s enjoys thoughtful debate and respects diversity of opinion.
Rest assured, if she gets in to Oberlin, we will have her visit when classes are in session as it is entirely possible that the activism might be too narrowly defined and too extreme.
@TytoAlba Perhaps this is a question to take to the administration, if it matters strongly to you. It is possible that the guide didn’t understand or misinterpreted what was meant by “non-conforming gender identity”.
I’m a bit late to this discussion, but did your daughter consider Bryn Mawr? I believe they have a thriving dance program as well as merit scholarships. Additionally, your daughter could take classes at Haverford, Swarthmore or U of Penn. I know two students going to Bryn Mawr this fall. One selected the school because of the dance program.
