Or maybe they like drinking. Or maybe they want to meet guys, and don’t know another way, because at their school socializing revolves around drinking. Or maybe they are rash because they’re teenagers, and don’t think the bad things will happen to them.
Education is not going to be the only answer here, any more than sexual abstinence education persuades young people to abstain from sex.
I really can’t believe some of the comments above. Girls drinking and being around males who drink is NEVER justification for being raped or sexually assaulted, and the assertion that they just don’t care about being raped is asinine. The legal onus is NOT on the female to not be victimized. Consent laws exist for a reason.
That being said, women should be smart and educated on how to protect themselves from being victimized by sexual predators. Men should be smart and protect themselves from false allegations. Go watch The Hunting Ground on Netflix.
I think that freshman are more likely t be sexually assaulted–especially early in the school year–for 4 reasons.
First, many don’t have that much experience with alcohol.
Second they don’t yet have a strong group of friends and the people they’ve met don’t yet know what they are willing to do. While it doesn’t always work, by the time a young woman is a sophomore, she’ll probably have some friends who will step in in a situation where she’s had too much to drink or if some young man is being too aggressive. If you’ve only known someone 10 days and she’s getting “hit on” by some good looking junior or senior, you can be rather hesitant to get involved because you don’t know whether she’d want you to do so. Give it a year, and it’s more likely to be someone who will intervene to make sure she gets home safely.
Third, first year women often don’t know reputations yet. They don’t know which frats have bad reps for sexual assault or which guys are known for being “handsy” or worse.
Finally, a lot of young women want so badly to fit in that they kind of turn off their gut instincts. They are afraid of being “babyish,” for lack of a better term. They want to seem grown up and mature and so they turn off their gut instincts. They are hesitant to say “No, I’m not going to take a short cut through a dark alley with you or get into your car or let you into my dorm room or…” because they are afraid of offending the guy.
PepperJo, I think your comment is why we do not warn women enough to take steps to ensure their safety. No one is blaming the women or saying that it is fair that they have to take extra steps. But they will be the most hurt by a negative outcome, so they have the most invested in ensuring their own safety, whether that is by appointing a designated nondrinker in their party or having an agreement with a friend or whatever.
While I was teaching my daughter how to drive, one important lesson was to never get into an competition with a truck about right of way. While she may have the rules of the road on her side, the truck has the rules of physics on its side, and physics always wins.
Likewise when it came to preparing to send her off to college a couple of years ago, she was told that when it comes to sexual assault, she may have the law on her side, but boys have physical strength on their side. And physical strength almost always wins. And so her preparation included being told to spend time the first weeks to find a group of girls who don’t drink excessively, who can attend parties together, watch out for each other, and leave together when the party starts getting out of control. This is extremely important the first few months.
Am I making excuses for the boys? Of course not. But everyone should encourage their children, and daughters in particular, to think defensively when it comes to sexual assault in the same way that we encourage defensive driving.
“Am I making excuses for the boys? Of course not. But everyone should encourage their children, and daughters in particular, to think defensively when it comes to sexual assault in the same way that we encourage defensive driving.”
Father of two Ds here and I agree whole heartedly. Laws, while important to inform, really only come into play when they are broken. They don’t really protect. Even convicted the damage is done.
Consent laws? ?
“How many intimate partners have you had?”
“12.”
“And did you give consent this time?”
“I was too drunk to remember.”
“Your Honor, I move to dismiss.”
I was just talking to a friend who works in Greek life at a mid-sized, directional state school. This particular school has 9 lawsuits pending against it in regards to sexual assault. Most of the assaults he’s aware of take place at non-university sanctioned fraternities (meaning not a national frat, no charter so basically a bunch of guys calling themselves a frat). The school publishes lists several times a year, telling students with Greek organizations are sanctioned and warning them about those that aren’t.
And what happens? Kids flock to the non-sanctioned houses because they know they will be the better parties!! He has begged girls in face to face meetings not to attend events at these houses because bad things happen. Yet they go, and assaults continue to happen. The houses aren’t on campus. They try to warn people, They don’t always listen. I think being young you feel a bit invincible. And it’s too late once you realize you aren’t.
As the mother of daughters, I have had many talks with them on how to be smart and safe. I haven’t read a single comment yet from parents of boys teaching them not to be predators. No parent wants to think that his or her son could be that kind of person, but with some studies showing 1 in 4 college women being sexually assaulted, one can’t deny that many of them are.
“As the mother of daughters, I have had many talks with them on how to be smart and safe. I haven’t read a single comment yet from parents of boys teaching them not to be predators.”
I think there may be several reasons for that. First, that is usually not the subject. Perhaps someone should start a discussion concerning conversations people have with their son’s about sex, alcohol, consent etc. it might be interesting. Second, in many cases it may be the fathers having these conversations and though I don’t really know for sure I assume the vast majority of posters on this site are women. I am a father but with 2 Ds my primary concern is for their safety and what they can do. There have been posts within similar threads by mothers of sons who have had these discussions it just hasn’t been the main point of any threads that I’m aware of.
@lvvcsf But that is exactly the subject. And I don’t see the education of sons as a separate topic from the statistics about rape. Men and boys need to learn what is appropriate behavior. Many, many men still do not know this. I was just in a professional meeting last week where a 50 year old man I had never met before was touching me repeatedly on the shoulders, arms, and even at one point the thigh. In front of ten other people! It was like we had been transported back to 1952.
I am a mom who has regular and repeated conversations with my son about this. It is not hard at all. We started in elementary school. I would much rather put in the effort to educate my son on what is appropriate than to curtail my daughter’s life out of some nonsense belief that if she just does the right thing, she will be safe. I have had lots of female friends who were raped in college, and very often they were doing all the “right things” and it still happened. Do I steer both my kids away from Greek dominated colleges because of the partying culture and disrespect for women and minorities that I witnessed in Greek life? You betcha. I don’t want either my son or my daughter participating in that. But I don’t think that will eliminate their risk. I also think the “blame the victim” attitude does help perpetuate the problem.
who is blaming the victim? If you enter a pedestrian cross walk, you have the right of way, always, The law is on your side, but that may not provide much comfort if you are hit and hospitalized.
Since this is cc, lets keep the summaries/interpretations to facts as presented, and not cast aspersions to meet preconceived notions and/or confirmation bias. Moreover, gotta remember that the “assaulters” are not all at the college. The survey asked women in college if they have been assaulted in the last year, anytime in the last year and in any place. So, if the college woman goes back home for the summer and is assaulted by her old high school (non-college) buddies at the beach/lake/shore, that counts as a Yes to the question. (Interestingly, the survey purposely excluded July.) If the college woman is working part time (to pay the bills) at an off-campus establishment and the non-college restaurant manager grabs her butt, that too, counts as an Affirmative to the survey question.
I always hate getting drawn into these discussions but I allow myself to. My responses seem to make it seem that that talking to your sons is a bad idea. My argument is that on its own it won’t keep take away the threat of assault. My analogy, though imperfect, is to that of culling a herd of deer. You can get rid of some bucks but so long as there is one the herd will continue to grow. He will get around. I see assault as a similar thing. You can educate and change the behavior of many but so long as there is one then our Ds are still threatened. That is why it is so imperative that we talk to and educate our Ds. I am not against educating our sons. It is important but it is not a panacea or a solution to keeping our Ds safe. As long as there is one person who chooses to be a criminal they have to be vigilant.
Regarding the comments to teach boys about consent. I’m not aware of any information that would suggest that this works, so I will relay my personal experience.
The apple doesn’t fall far from the tree. Teaching boys about consent assumes there is a parent with the concern, knowledge, etc. to do this. This would be a bad assumption.
Also, birds of a feather flock together, right? The predators are hanging out with other predators, so there is no opportunity to reach them about consent through friends.
Evolution has placed us in this position we’re in today. Plenty of women love the predators for other reasons not related to predatory behavior. So the gene pool survives. A defensive strategy is probably the best option for girls.
I did talk with my son about this before going away to school. Labor Day weekend his freshman year he was at a party with friends and his friend left with a woman that was very drunk. He tried to step in and stop both parties but neither was willing to hear it and were content leaving together. The next morning he pulled his friend aside and again discussed the night before and the friend agreed it was a bad decision on both parties but in the end nothing happened, he hit it off with the woman and they had plans to “go on a date”. My son then talked with others on the dorm floor (male and female) about the actions of the night before and why it had been a bad idea for all involved. On the surface I couldn’t have been more proud of him.
Fast forward a few days and he was moved out of his dorm and being investigated for title IX violations and facing suspension from school. One of the women in the group discussion decided that my son was calling his friend a rapist when relaying the cautionary tale. She submitted an accusation of this to the RA and then added anything he had done or said in the first 3 weeks of school to bolster her case that he was a problem. Any joke he had told, comment he had made that could be construed in a sexual manner, dancing in the dorm, etc. was skewed to put him in a predator light.
We (I went as his support person) met with the Dean/Title IX officer and defended his actions. He had to submit witnesses and everyone had to be interviewed. The process took until Thanksgiving for him ultimately to be found “not guilty”. In part, the process took as long as it did because the accuser refused to be interviewed, in large part because she knew she was wrong and didn’t want to be called to the carpet. In spite of being found “not guilty” he was forbidden from moving back to his dorm room because the accuser felt uncomfortable with him living near her.
My son tried to do the right thing and his freshman year was destroyed over it. His grades suffered with the investigation hanging over his head for 80% of the semester, he was moved 3 times, restricted from parts of campus during the investigation, lost a roommate he was close to, etc. all for trying to do the right thing and help educate to protect the women he was close to.
Not every male student is a predator but it doesn’t matter because in the sexual assault climate of today every male student is viewed as a predator first and often times have to prove they are not as opposed to being assumed innocent.
One last piece. The woman in his case accused another student of stalking her. He was found not guilty the first time and she made another allegation a second time, within 3 weeks of the first being closed. He was found not guilty the second time but again he had to move because she wasn’t comfortable with him in her dorm (in the building at all). This had begun before my son’s case but was not taken into account at all. Her actions had a detrimental impact on at least these 2 students but she was never “punished” for any of the false allegations and ultimately “won”. Assaults happen and are awful but the current climate has stacked the deck against a male student, often just trying to do the right thing.
I think that’s not entirely right. Even in groups of men with a relatively large number of assaulters, still the majority, probably, are not assaulters. They could speak up, if they had the guts, if they realized other guys in their group felt the same as they felt.
A sea change has happened in recent years about gay-bashing. It used to be socially acceptable to bash gays. Now, in many groups where that used to be normal, now someone making a sneering remark about gays is going to get the side-eye and the “Dude, what the heck?” instead of approval.
We can teach our sons better. Parents of sons, what are you telling your sons about consent?
Nope, we taught them to not drink too much and be careful of drunk, crazy and predatory females…
I always say I’m not going to get dragged in but then someone has to spout nonsense and I give in.
Also, men in this thread, what do you do when you yourselves are in all-male groups, and someone makes a remark or a joke that indicates they think rape is not so bad, or a woman needs to be raped, or they’d like to “have sex” with that woman they see over there even if she didn’t consent, or some other comment that shows they think assault is not a bad thing, har har har? Do you just let it slide? What if your sons are present then; what do you do?
Have you let your sons in on the secret that no, women do not want unsolicited dick pix? Really, we don’t.
@momofthreeboys
Teachings your sons to be wary of “drunk, crazy, predatory females” is smart. I would do the same. But when statistics show that 90% of perpetrators are male, it’s hard to seriously claim that females are the problem. You might disagree, but my comment is far from nonsense.