<p>Surveys of top colleges found virtually no change from the 1990s to 2012 in enrollment of students who are less well off despite a huge increase in the number of such students going to college.</p>
<p>I know a kid who seems like an awesome candidate for top colleges looking for this kind of economic diversity.
Likely valedictorian, 34ACT (no prep) lives on family farm/midwest, has 5 siblings, dad is a fireman, 2 varsity sports, class president, works part-time as a shepherd for neighbor, other awards/leadership, rural high school, would have great references and interview well. Although he has been getting info. from Harvard, Princeton, etc. he has no interest in applying to these schools. He wants to go to a school close to home (2-3 hour drive). The expense and inconvenience of traveling long distance is a big issue. Never been on a plane. A few hundred dollars is a lot to this family. The idea of buying all those plane tickets is a deal-breaker. Never traveled except to visit relatives, and school trip to Chicago. Just driving back and forth to an airport is a problem. He wants to be near his family and have the option of coming home to see them once in awhile. Another issue is culture. He is a midwestern kid and wants to return to his hometown. He loves it there and it is all he can imagine. When he thinks of stereotypes of the east coast/prestigious schools (fast pace/ultra-competitive, rude/unfriendly, rich/materialistic, etc.), they really don’t appeal to him. He just doesn’t see himself there. Anyway, I suspect there are a lot of kids like him out there–they might have great chances of getting into top schools, but they’re not interested.</p>
<p>^Many people have no idea this kind of kid exists. It’s a good reminder for people who simply can’t accept that elite northeastern schools are not the dream for everybody. It’s not just poor kids who are sometimes uninterested, either.</p>
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<p>I think the top schools really don’t get that, even with their apply-for “diversity” fly-in weekends. </p>
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<p>I didn’t know that.</p>
<p>Efforts like this one can help prepare and connect those students who might not aim for top colleges: <a href=“http://www.chicagoscholars.org/”>A Few Words from the New CEO of Chicago Scholars, Jeffery Beckham, Jr. – Chicago Scholars. But, it’s just a drop in the bucket. I think the downward trend in top-school-enrollment of students “who are less well off” is going to continue. I think diversity on the campus might play a part, such as the report in a recent documentary that fewer AA students are attending Berkeley because they’re not seeing a lot of AA students attending (vicious circle). </p>
<p>@atomom:</p>
<p>Um, there are prestigious schools outside the East Coast, you know. Even in fly-over country like Chicago (and the 2 there can get him anywhere that an Ivy could).</p>
<p>Also, depending on what he wants to study, his state flagship may be very good (UIUC for engineering/CS/accounting; Purdue for engineering; IU for business; Iowa for writing; UW-Madison for several subjects).</p>
<p>That said, I’ve heard that something like 30% of highly-qualified URM/disadvantaged don’t apply to any elite schools.</p>
<p>A kid from northern MN/WI/MI could easily be 8 hours or more from Chicago (and several more from IU/UIUC/Purdue). And if he lives on a farm, he might not have anyone to take him, even if he was ready to brave the big city. Dairy farmers are notorious for never being able to take vacation. The cows have to be milked every day without fail. </p>
<p>One thing that Dale & Krueger found is that those kids motivated/confident/ambitious enough to at least apply to elite schools do just as well financially in life as those who attended an elite school (if they were not from a disadvantaged/URM background). Not so true for those kids who did not apply even if they had high stats.</p>
<p>Not having the ambition/motivation/confidence to try for the top tier may say a lot about your makeup & what you aim for and thus whether you will do as well as a grad from an elite school.</p>
<p>There are plenty of kids who have no one, NO ONE to guide them. Even if they get 35-36, 2350-2400 on their tests, they still need someone to help them navigate the process. It’s not just a matter of ambition/motivation/confidence.</p>
<p>One of the reasons I chose a “lesser” (gag) school over University of Michigan was because of Michigan’s abysmal outreach to low income students. They give great aid, yes, but they simply don’t reach out to those students. I think they’re getting better, but still lag FAR behind where they should given their campaign to increase SES and racial diversity on campus. </p>
<p>Plus, it’s a culture issue. I can’t tell you how many profs and students I’ve heard here make comments assuming that everyone in the class is at least middle class. It’s not vindictive or anything, but it sincerely makes for an uncomfortable environment. Even in my grad program here, I’ve heard more than one grad student make derogatory remarks about those on foodstamps or other public aid. I, not caring what people think of me, speak up and say something but most just stay silent. </p>
<p>It’s a really sad state of affairs, IMO. It’s sad that so much attention is being placed on other types of “inclusiveness” on so-called elite campuses, but SES diversity is being thrown to the wayside. </p>
<p>@sally305: Well, he took a school trip to Chicago, which suggests that he’s not too far away.</p>
<p>Also, a kid in upper MI presumably has heard of UMich (which actually, like the Ivies, is a banking/consulting target).</p>
<p>In MN & WI, UW-Madison is in-state, and while not a Street target, can get you about as far in most other career pursuits.</p>
<p>@oldmom4896 & @romanigypsyeyes:</p>
<p>True, some kids just don’t have the parents or schools there to point out the differences between a directional and decent state school and elite (or to teach them about fin aid) and that’s a shame. Or to tell them that they can and should reach for the best (even if “the best” in their mind is the state flagship; the difference between the lowest tier colleges and a decent public flagship is bigger than the difference between a pretty good public flagship and an elite, IMO). </p>
<p>Interesting article & comments alike.</p>
<p>There is an obssession with the top colleges in this country. This is NOT the most important where they attend, the most important is what they do there at college. D. has avoided all this fuss and did not apply to any top schools. We are not poor, but why poor have to absolutely strive to go to Harvard when everybody can do just fine at absolutely any UG? The focus seems to be off. Why there is no focus on performance at college (if somebody wants to socioeconomically divide students into groups and develop performance statistics based on that). I do not see any connection, but I guess, some do. I do not think that money has anything to do with it, but rather how kids are raised, what type of priorities are instilled in them. And if some would say that poor somehow have less time for kids, I would say that it is a very incorrect statement. </p>
<p>One point in the article that rings true to me is “Exposure to just a few high-achieving peers or attending a high school with just a few teachers or recent alumni who went to highly selective colleges makes a huge difference in where low-income students apply.”</p>
<p>That was certainly true for me. My parents moved from the city into a town that was solidly middle to upper middle class, with some working class-poorer neighborhoods (where we lived). We were definitely among the “have-nots” but wealth was all around us. I believe my educational experience there was very different than it would have been in the city (which was losing middle class families at a very fast rate at the time and which did not have any magnet high schools). Most of the kids in the advanced classesat my HS knew they were going to college and many went to top schools. Even with no family members that had gone away to college, I knew that was what I wanted to do. I also had a guidance counselor that pointed me toward a college that was known for good financial aid. Again, would not have been likely in the city. </p>
<p>However, isn’t it still incredibly difficult for a student from a low achieving high school to get into an elite college, even if (s)he is at the top of the class? Don’t they need something more than being smart and from a poor background to get admitted? Clearly, the deck is stacked against these kids in so many ways. </p>
<p>I recently found the listing of what kids in my very large graduating class were doing after college and many top names were listed. OTOH, many kids were going to work or to the local community college or commuter schools. It was pretty interesting to read after all these years. </p>
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<p>Exactly. There are many who recognize this and that’s why programs like the Posse Foundation exist–to help these kids get into, fund, and succeed in college.</p>
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<p>There is such a thing as a hotel…:)</p>
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<p>OK, that is just ridiculous. So now it’s a character flaw to not even apply to top-tier schools?? I hate to break it to you but not everybody wants to attend the CC-approved list of elite schools. And it’s not ONLY people who attend them who are successful. Some of my most successful employers–CEOs of successful corporations and foundations–attended schools like Bradley University, UW-Eau Claire, Eastern Illinois U and Aurora College. The billionaire founder of the biggest employer in my area attended UW-Madison. Those of us who have been in the working world for a while have no trouble grasping the fact that prestige does not make a bit of difference to most people’s career trajectories (with the possible exception of the finance industry, which is definitely an old-boys’ network pulling from the Ivies and a few other schools).</p>
<p>I think that getting some talented and smart kids from poor backgrounds is possibly more important to the elite schools than it is to these kids. I agree that there are other schools that these kids can get into that they open up good opportunities for them.
But elite schools remain in large part the gatekeepers to our elite class - take the Supreme Court, for one example. I think it’s good for our society as a whole when there is a path, however narrow, to the the very tippy top for the smart, motivated poor kids.
I also agree that it’s harder for rural poor kids than it is for urban poor kids to see this opportunities, simply because of proximity.</p>
<p>I come from somewhat more “sophisticated” environment than @atomom describes, but I also have the same hang ups about traveling too far from home. I went to college in my hometown and I live 6 hours from my hometown now, and I don’t like being this far (pay was too good to turn down). I could probably visit the East or West but I have no intention of ever moving there for any considerable amount of time. And while I was never in the running for one of those elite privates, even if I was I probably would have stuck with my local public.</p>
<p>I don’t have the aversion to being around the wealthy that some people seem to be associating with this, because I don’t view the Midwest as “for the working class” or the East and West as “for the rich.” I grew up upper middle class in the South and in the Midwest and I make good money now, it’s not like I couldn’t travel to the East or West if I wanted to, I just don’t want to.</p>
<p>I think that getting some talented and smart kids from poor backgrounds is possibly more important to the elite schools than it is to these kids
Agree.
Youngest attended inner city public with academic magnet.
I helped counsel students on post high school options, although many did not start thinking about college till jr yr.
Oftimes they were needed at home, to help with child care/income. They were definitely first gen college.
The most realistic scenario for them ( for several) was to live at home for two more years and attend community college, while trying to find more supports for parents when they transferred to a 4yr.</p>
<p>This was the case not only for students from impoverished backgrounds, but also students whose presence was very important to their family, to work in the family business or otherwise physically be there.</p>
<p>Fortunately, the kids that we are still in contact with because they are friends of D’s, did make it to a university and graduate, even if wasn’t an " elite" university. But University of Washington isnt too shabby.</p>