My D is strong in academics, eclectic in ECs. She is a junior at a public high school in NE, and believes she is competitive for Brown, MIT, Harvard, Princeton. Intended college major: physics. Strong GPA; 800 so far on biology SAT. (next subject SAT’s this spring). Competitive in one 1 varsity sport since 9th grade; musician; nationally ranked speedcuber (Rubiks’ cube competitor); a few other not especially differentiated EC’s; We’ve visited so far Brown, Tufts, Harvard, MIT.
D has not yet shown any interest in parents’ alma maters – but both are very strong in physics (dad attended Haverford; Mom attended Cornell).
This is a kid who is a bit anti-establishment–doesn’t enjoy “joining” for the sake of it. We think she could be accepted to our alma maters and they would both offer a strong undergrad prep in physics.
So, question is twofold:
1.how to identify “match” schools for this kid in physics? she hopes to be relatively close to home in college but of course she may mature this year and that could change.
2.Also, how much do other parents encourage “legacy” applications when kids are reluctant on principle? Haverford and Cornell would be great choices for her, even if we hadn’t gone there!
No SAT or ACT score yet?
The schools you have listed are NOT a slam dunk for admissions for anyone.
It’s pretty hard to give you match schools without standardized test scenes.
Do you have any financial constraints?
Re: the legacy status…let it go. If she doesn’t want to attend these colleges…then that’s that. Or you could pick ONE as a parent choice for the application. We didn’t ask our kids to apply to any schools the KIDS didn’t want to attend.
Thanks Thumper1. You’re right–she hasn’t put together her match list yet. I’m not sure why you would think a junior would have standardized test scores? It’s only Jan. We do have financial constraints which is why, in these early days, we are thinking a soft encouragement to apply to legacies might help her. 17 year olds are kind of naive. At this point, she doesn’t want to apply to our alma maters on principle ( her parents attended) but they are both great schools in physics. I was looking for guidance from parents who have navigated this tricky territory–maybe as a parent you happened to go to a great school for your kid’s desired major, and the kid won’t even think about it because she’s young and reactive. My husband and I did not study physics (or anything close) so we feel sad that our D won’t consider our alma maters out of a principle that we went there (which is silly on the face of it–they are better physics schools then they were schools for the majors we chose).
@silversmith
Of course I knew she didn’t have SAT or ACT scores yet. But really…without them, it’s hard to suggest colleges…match or anything else.
There is a whole thread here on silly reasons kids didn’t like colleges. Believe me when I say…legacy parents is not the silliest reason for a kid rejecting a college.
Wouldn’t an affordable safety that she likes be the first college to look for to put on the application list?
(Of course, SAT/ACT scores are typically needed to help determine admissibility to colleges.)
Have you run the NPC’s on Cornell and Haverford? Can you afford your parental contribution? Neither school offers any merit $$, only need-based aid, so legacy or otherwise, the cost is going to be based on their calculations. For many families, ours included, 100% meets need schools are too expensive bc the familial contribution is too high.
Is she a NMSF? Those scores would at least give a ballpark estimate. If money matters, test scores that are required for top admissions can translate into large $$ merit scholarships elsewhere.
Fwiw, our college sr is a physics/math major in the process of applying to grad schools (actually more at the waiting to hear pt at this time.) Since we could not afford top schools, he had to follow merit scholarships. He was, however, a competitive student who graduated from high school with unusual high school academic accomplishments (he took 5 in-major physics courses at our local university as a high school student, so he entered as a colleges freshman taking upper level physics classes during his freshman yr.) I share that bc on CC the premise is typically that top students can’t possibly find peer groups at non-tippy top schools, nor can they possibly be academically challenged outside of the elite schools. Our family has definitely not found that to be a given.
What we learned during our college search for ds is that for physics there are certain things you want to find in a dept: regularly offered physics course sequences, 2 yr sequences of the the upper level courses, and UG access to research. In visiting various depts, research became more clearly defined as a vital filter for our ds. Many depts will readily admit that UG research work is done for grad/post-doc students bc their depts’ focus is on their grad students or that only a handful of UGs actually participate in research with faculty. One dept actually told ds that that was what REUs are for. Another dept told him that as a high school student involved in research that he already had more direct research experience than most of their UGs. Definitely not acceptable responses for our research-driven ds. There are depts out there that do encourage UG faculty-mentored research. Our ds has been working directly with faculty on research since his freshman yr.
In terms of academic challenge, our ds was able to take grad level courses once he completed his UG sequence. He has also been taking some courses independent study directly 1-on-1with faculty. And, yes, even standard UG courses were challenging. He was a competitive applicant for REUs and had multiple offers each summer.
And, he has great friends. Lots of top, competitive students are found on campuses outside of the “elite.” (Has been true for all of our kids on their various college campuses.)
When you start with tippy tops, you need to realize how important math-sci ECs are for STEM hopefuls, and the related collaborative experiences. You need to dig into what that level of colleges expects in ECs: depth, breadth, and as a show of good will and an open mind. It’s not “joining for the sake if it,” but showing you’re open to more than just your own specific interests.
In building a list, we emphasized to ours that the colleges do the picking and how they see “match.” Its not just what the kid likes or wants. Read the MIT admission blogs.
Yes, find safeties you can afford. Many great options.
Many juniors have some standardized test results at this point. Hopefully, your student has hers scheduled/ Not everyone is a one and done. Many students
Oops, don’t know what happened there^^. In any case, many students are not interested in their parents or siblings alma mater. I guess it has something to do with their independence. As others have mentioned, it is hard to determine a match list without standardized test results. Financial restraints are the first order of business within your family. Matches don’t matter if you can’t afford it.
Many juniors are finished with testing by January…although there are also many who are not. Some take these tests in December knowing that there is time to retest in the spring if necessary. Some are “one and done” in December. When is she planning to take these tests?
You mentioned that finances are an issue- have you used the NPC for Cornell and Haverford? Being a legacy will not help at all in terms of affordability- you still need to pay your EFC. I would not try and gently nudge my daughter to apply if she was against it… but I do like the idea of one parent pick …if the cost is doable.
If money is an issue I would make two lists of schools. The first list would be schools that meet full need. Fill out the NPCs and see if the cost looks affordable. The schools that look affordable stay on the list. You have to pay your EFC.
The next list of schools are those that would give your daughter merit. For example… She may get into the honors college at UMD-CP with a $12,000 merit award. That would bring the cost down to about $35,000 ( give or take). Would that be affordable? She may get decent merit to Pitt… but it’s only decent if the balance is affordable to you.
I would have her take her standardized tests so you know what you are dealing with in terms of schools. I would also determine what I can afford to pay and craft a list accordingly. Remember- you still need to pay your EFC as a legacy.
You and your daughter have a lot to do between now and the summer. I would not wait any longer to begin this process. Good luck!
Does your high school have naviance?
Actually…I’m with the OP on this one. Where I live…most kids take the SAT or ACT for the first time the second half of their junior year in HS…giving them the time and option to retake either later in the junior year or at the start of senior year.
My point was…it’s hard to make any suggestions without knowing those scores…well…unless the student will only be applying to test optional schools 
Agreed that scores are necessary.
Also- is this student taking 1-2 more subject tests …plus the regular SAT… all in the spring?
I would think a NE public HS would have the kids, or at least strongly encourage the kids, to take the PSAT as sophomores and certainly as juniors. At my middle of the road HS most kids in the higher academic track have taken the SAT by December of junior year. That number will be crucial to see what types of schools are “match.” But as several have pointed out, the financial discussion has to come first. No sense in finding match schools if you can’t afford them.
At our NE public HS the same is true… the stronger juniors take these tests before January of junior year and then retake them one more time if necessary. Subject tests are often taken starting freshman year after the class has been taken… with more taken in the spring of junior year if necessary.
That’s why I feel the family has a lot of work to do… Almost all the testing still needs to be done … Plus an affordable list needs to be crafted…and much of this depends on scores.
I do recognize that all high schools do things differently and our way is not the only way.
Visiting high reach colleges without any scores in hand seems like a recipe for disaster in this case. Even if her scores are perfect, these schools are all high reaches, possibly excluding Tufts, tho yet another female applicant from NE is an uphill battle there too.
It must be regional. By January of Junior year most kids have taken the ACT at least once in my neck of the woods.
By the end of junior year just about everyone here has taken the ACT or SAT once…but first semester junior year? Not around here.
But all of that doesn’t matter. Fact is…THIS kid has not taken them yet…so it’s very hard to suggest match and safety schools without those scores.
In the meantime, they can work on learning more about colleges and doing a check on the ECs.