<p>It's hard to believe that a child's irresponsible behavior only surfaced senior year when he is getting ready to be on his own.</p>
<p>He had had other irresponsible behavior, however, he is ADHD, gifted, and also had skipped a year.</p>
<p>The fact that he always had said he wanted to go to college, had chosen to be in the county's most rigorous academic program, and had done excellently including being well organized in journalism jobs and even an out of state internship at which he was the youngest intern by about 4 years also led H and me to assume that S would be able to handle going away to the college of his choice.</p>
<p>In addition, he did not like the city where we'd moved when he was 8, and had not fit in there even though before we moved, he'd had a lot of friends. H and I assumed that if he went to college in the part of the country that we'd left, he'd be happy and would do fine in school, something that he had done until he was in h.s.</p>
<p>H and my way of doing things differed from how S's friend's parents handled a similar situation. S's friend also didn't like our city, had underperformed in h.s. (done even worse than S, and had taken a far easier curriculum despite being gifted), and longed to go out of state to college where he had been accepted. However, S's friend's parents made him live at home and go to community college.</p>
<p>H and I thought the parents were being unreasonable. However, that young man excelled in community college then went to our state's flagship and also did well. Last I heard from him, he's planning to go to law school. Our S has never returned to college, and is living far out of state supporting himself doing office work.</p>
<p>If I could do things over again, I would not have structured S's life so he had to get his college apps in, and also I would have made it clear to S that major grade problems senior year would mean that we wouldn't allow him to go away to college. If he had managed to go away to college, he would have known that any major grade problems would mean that he'd come home. We wouldn't have let him stay in college after getting a .046 fall semester. H wouldn't have flown to the college after fall semester to meet with S and his advisor (with S's approval) to try to figure out how to help S be organized enough to succeed in college. Anyone who needs that kind of handholding from parents while in college isn't mature enough to go to college away from home, and may not be mature enough or motivated enough for college at all.</p>
<p>oldfort, it doesn't surprise me at all! All kinds of things show up senior year. I think they are pretty much just fried by then. I found out at the end of her sr year that my D hadn't been doing her math homework for some time. She managed to get a B+ anyway, but it was totally unlike her to do that!</p>
<p>Northstarmom, I have always appreciated your no-nonsense clarity and wisdom. It is interesting to me to hear your experience and hindsight. I too wish I'd listened to the message my D was sending when she was totally unmotivated about college apps. (She too has ADD, is gifted, and skipped a year.)</p>
<p>I am not referring to senior year's iresponsible behavior. It is very understandable how students would chose to relax their senior year, but if that's the case, it is not an indication they are no ready for college.</p>
<p>It depends on how much they relax senior year and how irresponsible they become. Relaxing to the point that a formerly straight A student gets a couple of Bs is not a big deal. Relaxing to the point that the student almost doesn't graduate or goes from straight As to straight Cs is a big deal.</p>
<p>
[quote]
He has Asperger's Syndrome and is very disorganized, leading him to be a not very together student.
[/quote]
Executive function deficits are part of the hidden disabilities of Asperger's. Your student may be smart and successful in a safe environment, especially if sound accomodations have been implemented in school. If the stress level goes up (think college campus), or the accomodations are removed, things can collapse in a hurry. This goes beyond typical adolescent disorganization, and can be treacherous. The student could lose a broad spectrum of function and regress significantly in a bad situation. Think of the EF deficits like a sinkhole beneath a nice lawn...</p>
<p>I would look for an option with very strong support for students with disabilities. It could be a community college, or a residential college with special supports for such students. Try a transition year with high supports and relatively low stress, and see if your student can maintain a high level of performance.</p>
<p>Missiepie,
Making sure you see this thread about an AP article on college students with Aspergers's.
<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/556566-article-asperger-s-autism-college.html%5B/url%5D">http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/556566-article-asperger-s-autism-college.html</a></p>
<p>Disorganized - Check</p>
<p>wait until last minute - check</p>
<p>handing in assignments late - check (once had a teacher call on memorial day begging son to hand in paper so she could put grades in).</p>
<p>younger than peers - check (didn't skip, but he was an October baby that I didn't hold back a year).</p>
<p>apathetic about college apps - check (he only cared about 1 school, didn't see why he had to apply to more than 1, managed to get several apps in just before deadline)</p>
<p>So off I sent him (he was accepted at the only school he ever really wanted to go to) last September. </p>
<p>And you know what... he rose to the occasion and did fine. I think for my son, knowing that I wouldn't be saying things like "when is that due" "don't you have homework", "go to sleep" and otherwise 'bothering' him allowed him to resolve to take control.</p>
<p>The journey's still a long way from being over, but had I not given him the chance (I always knew he was capable of doing things for himself, but I never understood the last minute stuff and it drove me bonkers) I would have taken from him the opportunity to either prove himself (not to me, but to himself) or to fail (not because of me, but because of his own lack of action).</p>
<p>"Disorganized - Check</p>
<p>wait until last minute - check</p>
<p>handing in assignments late - check (once had a teacher call on memorial day begging son to hand in paper so she could put grades in).</p>
<p>younger than peers - check (didn't skip, but he was an October baby that I didn't hold back a year).</p>
<p>apathetic about college apps - check (he only cared about 1 school, didn't see why he had to apply to more than 1, managed to get several apps in just before deadline)
"</p>
<p>All of these things seem within normal limits to me. I wouldn't describe a person who got several applications in just before deadline as "apathetic." From what I've seen, most students do their applications just before deadline, and if they have a favored school that they are fairly certain to be admitted to, many students see no reason to bother applying anywhere else. It's only the unusually obsessive and organized students whom we see on CC who do things like write their essays the summer before senior year.</p>
<p>By comparison, we didn't know a week before graduation whether younger S would be graduating from h.s. because he was behind on so many assignments. The last few days of senior year, most of his classmates were having fun including doing things like camping out overnight on the school's lawn.</p>
<p>S, however, was working night and day to do things like write lab reports that had been due more than a month earlier. He got all of his papers in the day that grades were due. His semester grades were mainly Cs and Ds, this from a student whose SAT was a 2190.</p>
<p>The same S didn't submit any applications senior year. He had applications, said he was working on them, but nothing ever was completed or mailed. f </p>
<p>Big, big difference between his behavior and your S's behavior. Your S sounds very similar to the typical senior headed straight to a successful college career. My S's behavior was similar to students who aren't yet ready to handle college.</p>
<p>yes, but it drove me insane, nonetheless!</p>
<p>In fact, I remember when it was time to decide if I should hold him back from starting kindergarten. The criteria was "if he's not emotionally mature enough, the fact that he's academically ready will be useless". </p>
<p>Glad I didn't listen to that advice because I would have to hold him back several years. </p>
<p>One of his first homework assignments was to get pictures of 3 things that started with the letter "A". He declared that stupid because he could name a hundred things that started with A so why should he bother doing this. I knew it was going to be a long 12+ years. Another favorite was when he said "why should I bother doing the science experiment, I already know what's going to happen so what is the point". I mentally scratched "scientist" off the list of career choices at that point.</p>
<p>I completely agree that some kids aren't ready for college. But for many kids, once they are there, the fears ease and their perspective changes, esp when they find other like minded souls.</p>
<p>I never went to college. The choice my parents gave me was Penn State. I hated beer and football and assumed that I would be the only person who felt that way so I refused to go to college.</p>
<p>I agree that it isn't as simple as a check-list of behaviors. Parent intuition and the "big picture" of where your son or daughter is in terms of maturity needs to be factored in as well.</p>
<p>Just because we steered our daughter to community college didn't mean that we ruled out 4-year colleges. We just didn't pick up the slack along the way. If she had shown some spurts of interest and maturity around college, we would have certainly made some efforts to smooth the transition for her and support the 4-year college goal. The trick was to figure out the balance between helping too much and helping too little.</p>
<p>The rule of thumb I finally came up with was the idea that if the task at hand was something she had never seen and didn't have any real-life experience in dealing with it - I was happy to hand hold. If it was something she had done at least once already and more or less mastered it, I was more hands off. Stuff that was in the middle of those two extremes I would offer minimal help and/or double-check later on (subtly) to see that she jumped through the right hoop.</p>
<p>An example of something she'd never done before - look through the college course schedule and figure out a basic plan for her first semester class. I sat down with her and we talked through a bunch of details (what's a unit, how many units per class, average # of units per semester, what's a prereq, how does one balance tough classes with easy classes for a balanced semester, how to use ratemyprofessor dot com and come away with realistic information vs. hyperbole, where to find the finals schedule, talking about how much the college will hand hold her vs leave her on her own - ie: if she forgets to drop a class and stops going she WILL get an F on a transcript, etc). When she was ready for 2nd semester class selection, I didn't say/ask/prompt anything - even if it meant she might miss out on registering on time (she ended up registering a few days after her time-slot opened, but still got into all her classes). She came to me to show me her schedule, but it was mostly to get a parental nod rather than any hand holding. Thus - I helped her that first semester for class selection, but afterwards was 100% hands off.</p>
<p>An example of something she's done many times - show up on time for the college's assessment tests(req. in order to get into the math and english sequences) with proper materials in hand. I did NOT ask her "gee, do you have #2 pencils and a school ID?" I did NOT arrange for her to wake up on time, etc. As we had been managing all senior year of HS already, I did NOT allow her to assume I was a 24-7 taxi-ride to the campus test ready on 4 minute notice... thus, she needed to ask a day or more in advance for me to drive her to campus (she did) or else she could use her own money and feet to use public bus transport/taxi (she was forced to do this ONCE in her HS career and she immediately got with the program - she did not like the taxi fee!!!). If she had missed the assesment test, I was going to let her deal with whatever the consequences would be... I figured she had learned about this skillset with all the prep toward her SAT testing. College assessment was about identical in task-set, thus I chose to be hands off.</p>
<p>An example of middle ground - she was trying to figure out campus orientation day and the information wasn't published yet. I had her call the college on her own and the info she got was kinda "off". I didn't trust it - so I called, got the RIGHT information - and instead of giving it to her directly told her why I called (what part of me had that intuition that the info sounded incorrect) and how I followed up, and how I directed my phone call to get someone who knew the schedule vs. just some random person answering the phones. I made her call again - and she got it right that time. The middle ground disappears quickly after the summer before college - because they are on campus taking classes and I don't meet her professors, get to know her assignment schedule (other than what she chooses to share in conversations) and other than a check in at the END of the semester when grades are in, I'm not involved in the ups and downs of papers, due dates, bombed quizzes, study habits, etc - she succeeds or fails 100% on her own efforts and I have zero to do with it (other than being an open ear when she comes to me).</p>
<p>Had our daughter applied to a bunch of 4-year colleges, I would have been asking myself in the application process whether or not it was new/first time, a skillset I expected her to have already, or whether it was in the middle and worthy of spot-checks or verbal confirmations that it sounded handled. As she completed her first app and moved onto the second app - I would have been more hands off on the basic process... but perhaps always there for the usual spot checks, spell checks, etc. HOWEVER, if she wasn't bothering to do simple stuff like doing the first-wave of spell checking - she'd be sent back to the drawing board to try again before I'd get involved.</p>
<p>In short - I'd act as a semi-invisible safety net - reading/learning about the college app process so I was a good resource as well as point out something she might reasonably not understand or overlook... but not steer the entire process or take over any portion that she could reasonably do on her own.</p>
<p>We have one more at home and I am using this approach already with him - he's balked some, but has made more preliminary steps in the right direction already. For him, 4-year is a reasonable step - but community college is an okay backup if he doesn't pull it together.</p>
<p>Annika</p>
<p>I worry because my D is so much younger than her classmates. She did not skip a year, just a late birthday. She seems so young to me and she doesn't want to leave home at all. Granted she still has 2 years, but her peers can't wait to be out of the house and in college. She wants to apply to a local school (it is a state flagship) and live at home. If she doesn't get in, she wants to go to school in the same city as a grandparent. On the one hand, I want to push her out of the nest and force her to fly. On the other hand, maybe she knows better than I do what her capabilities are.</p>
<p>It is so hard to predict. I have no experience with the Asperger spectrum.</p>
<p>I will, though, offer our experience with a capable student from a "laid back" high school. He DID need a fair amount of nudging (!) to get his apps in. Part of this, though, was that his mother seemed to be just about the only person in town who thought that one should start thinking about college apps prior to, say, November senior year.</p>
<p>After a fair amount of "nudging" said student came up with a handsome handful of offers. Said student has done quite well, with no additional nudging, at the school of his choice.</p>
<p>Had we used his level of interest and gumption to determine his readiness for college, this high achieving junior might still be at home.</p>
<p>Just one person's observation.</p>
<p>Hi Queen's Mom - While I'm all for young adults becoming independent (I have zero desire to have a 23+ year old living with us and will be firm about not having that happen), I also think that the push to have kids out of the home by age 18 can be premature as well. I think the real secret is to insist on a steady trajectory toward independence. A young adult going to school fulltime, working part-time to cover some of their college expenses plus all their own entertainment/clothing and yet still living at home is on schedule to make those steps towards true adult independence. I do not think the first step at age 18 must be "going away" to college. </p>
<p>The choices in our household are college away, college and at home, or fulltime work. The college route is definitely a better deal because we will give them 5 years to get to a degree before insisting they move out. A child that chooses work will have a MUCH shorter time frame - if they work one or two years and then go to college, the 5 year total may still apply. If they work two years and still don't wish to go to college, they'd be asked to move out after those two years of working.</p>
<p>I know so many families these days that extend the time at home far beyond 4 or 5 years of college - or have adult children moving back in after college. That's not for me and certainly not how the previous generations tended to work out. I'm all for being with the times, but some trends I just don't agree with and figure we have come up with a good compromise.</p>
<p>I guess what I'm saying is as long as your daughter is becoming more and more independant and you have an end target in date that is verbalized for yourself AND your daughter - it will likely be just fine!</p>
<p>Our daughter lives at home and goes to community college. She already is talking about transfering to a school 3 hours away. Even if she finishes her degree locally, she's forming a plan and knows our expectations. There was no urgency to push her to "go away" to college, nor do I think it would have made her grow up faster. If anything, I think it would have distressed her and potentially been one of those "go away to college and flunk out freshman year" type experiences - and who wins then? If she had displayed any true inkling, desire, readiness for it - fine. But she didn't. It doesn't mean she hasn't gained all those skills and determination at community college - she has, and done so with real grace.</p>
<p>Annika</p>
<p>Yes, Annika. I agree with you. I also want to add that she will only be 17 when she is slated to start college. Maybe a commuter school with a transfer after 2 years will work better for us.</p>
<p>Senior year started today. Last night I told Son in as non-threatening a way as possible that this is the year that would show us if he is ready to go away to college. </p>
<p>Yes, he has big executive function problems. He hasn't had accomodations in school for years. Last spring I started begging everyone in the school and the district for help for him on orgainzational issues FROM SOMEONE WITH KNOWLEDGE OF ASPERGER'S. Recommendations ranged from checking out books on org. from the library to meeting periodically with a favorite teacher. The head of special ed says that there is no way to get him formal help because his grades are too good for him to get special services. I'm going to see how their informal plan goes before I get all lawyer mama on them.</p>
<p>I've taken another look at the 4 year schools in commuting distance (so he could live at home if need be) and all seem very wrong for him. I'm wondering if he would do better away at a small school with strong disabilities support than commuting to a larger school with no support.</p>
<p>My son started CC this morning. He will have some support services there, probably as good as we will get in this state. Plus they have a program he is very interested in there (computer network management), so we haven't been faced with the same choice. </p>
<p>Have you considered sending him to Marshall (WV), where I understand they have a specialized (extra cost) support program specifically for Aspergers?</p>
<p>I think that for many students with Asperger's, their lack of organizational skills is often more a part of their disability and less a part of their maturity level, so a gap year because they seem immature may not be the best solution if that immaturity is being determined based on comparing organizational skills etc to the skills would expect a more "normal" student to have (they will not necessarily pick up the specific organizational skills they need for academic success through a gap year spent working . </p>
<p>It is also important to identify what kinds of organizational difficulties your S may face in college in order find a school that will best be able to accommodate those deficiencies; the academic demands of college can be very different from hs and students with poor organizational skills who have been able to "get by" in hs may find it much more difficult in college. My preference would be to focus on finding a school that will best meet S's acadamic interests, needs and learning style, even if that does mean living away from home - although ideally not too far away and not too large of a school! </p>
<p>I would definitely continue to pursue an evaluation NOW while S is still in hs, to try to better define his speciifc learning/organizational deficiencies that may effect his college years, and by someone familiar with Asperger's - even if that means pursuing this through the legal process if your district does not have the resources themselves or is willing to do this. Also, if your S wishes to receive accommodations in college (that he has been able to get by without having up until now), he will most likely need a current diagnosis (less than 3 yrs old) in order to receive accommodations anyway (I know that you have mentioned that he has not been receiving accommodations in hs so not sure how current his diagnosis is?) </p>
<p>In addition, as you are looking at college choices, there are also colleges that offer tutoring or courses/workshops to the general student population on time management, study skills, and the availabilty and quality of some of these more general services may also be something to consider especially if you have a student like mine, whose Aspergers is pretty mild (he also did not receive any accommodations in hs because his academic performance was too high). Also, strong career services and internship opportunities might also be other factors to look at in a college since in the long run it is their future careers that we should be preparing them for. Some students with Aspergers or LDs might also benefit from reduced class loads when they first begin college.</p>
<p>Many students with Asperger's will benefit from private programs such as AHEADD or College Living Experience (such as described in the link provided by northeastmom') or from programs offered by some colleges (a very small number) such as Marshall or Landmark. Others CAN succeed with a minimal amount of services and accommodations as long as they take advantage of those services and accommodations and are also fully engaged and interested in their area of study. Finding someone, be it staff or student, who can serve as a mentor for both academic and social issues might also greatly benefit students with Asperger's. </p>
<p>But the main thing is to find a suitable learning environment for your S where his needs will best be met, and then develop a plan of action to prepare and transition him to that SPECIFIC environment (and plan on continuing to be involved in some of the transitional/organizational/logistical aspects of his college years; he will most likely continue to need some familial guidance and support while navigating through these years ;) )</p>
<p>Good Luck!!!</p>
<p>Has anyone gotten private coaching for their Asperger's or spectrum kid when he/she went off to college? My son has NVLD with plenty of organization issues and social skills deficits. I worry about how he'll do going off to college, and would like to find him a coach who would meet with him once or twice a week to make sure he was on track. I'm not sure how to go about finding one.</p>
<p>I was so excited when I learned that a private group has a program for Aspie kids at St. Edwards, which is on my son's list. However, the cost is $30,000 or $40,000 per year (can't remember which - at either price it's out of reach) on top of tuition. There's another group that has a less extensive coaching program. They coach SMU students and I was thinking about seeing if they could work a bit with Son while still in HS. Of course, then I get mad and think that the school should be providing this service for free. (Sort of like the speech impediment - 5 years of school speech therapy did nothing. We finally paid for private therapy out of pocket for a year and it worked.)</p>