<p>Wow... you got me all wrong Amused. I study more for school and for standardized tests than just about anyone I know. If people want to spend hours studying, that's fine with me, because I do the same thing. However, I don't agree with spending hours on the SAT vocab, in particular the Barron's list. Out of those 3500 words, several hundred were ridiculous and I doubt will appear on the SAT anytime soon. It's been said a million times, but reading IS the best way to prep for the SAT verbal. The next best thing, I think, is to master the 600 or 1000 word lists, because those are the words that show up the most. Honestly, the 3500 word lists are just a waste of time.</p>
<p>" he is willing to go above and beyond as far as his class work. He is interested and challenged and has always gotten good grades. He started a Friday night philosophy group at his boarding school. I guess I don't see where not wanting to prep for a standardized test makes him unfit for an Ivy"</p>
<p>Loving learning enough to start a philosophy group and insist on reading philosophy and good literature for fun is far more impressive to Ivies than is prepping to get sky high scores. Assuming that your S's scores are within Ivy range (at least 1200, but more realistically at least 1300 and higher), he has more of a chance than do the 1500 scorers whose main EC was SAT prepping.</p>
<p>Thanks, Northstarmom, that's what we're hoping. His scores should be well above 1300, based on the practice test he did at the beginning of the tutoring. I just get nervous seeing all these incredible statistics on this board and seeing so many kids STILL get deferred and rejected. It really is a lottery! K.</p>
<p>karenindallas, friends of mine have a daughter that just got into Stanford with a score of 1400. On this board, scores between 1300 and 1400 may be looked at with disgust. In real life, these are very high scores.</p>
<p>I didn't say it makes him unfit, just that tough schools are going to have lots of requirements that students aren't always going to enjoy fulfilling. If he's willing to go above and beyond in all his classes, but just won't prepare for the SAT, chances are he'll do better than he (or you) expects. The SAT I really isn't as bad a test as people make it out to be. Students who do well in school tend to do well on the test. And great students who don't ace the SAT still have a chance at lots of elite schools.</p>
<p>I'd also suggest that he consider Bowdoin, which has made a point for years of not caring about the SAT. From what you're saying, it sounds like he'd have no problem at all getting in, and students seem to really like it there (although it does get very cold, especially for someone coming from Texas).</p>
<p>Finally, remember that if he doesn't like wherever he ends up, he can always transfer out. Colleges want to see the SAT to know which students will succeed, and a 4.0 from any top university looks as good as a high SAT score (probably better, because the SAT score just means that you can probably do the work, while a 4.0 means that you can do the work for sure). Spending three years at your dream school isn't as good as spending four years there, but it's better than spending four years somewhere you'd be miserable.</p>
<p>Northstarmom and alla, is 1200-1300 really in ivy range? My son who is a junior now will most likely score somewhere there. We've seen so many special kids, including URMs get turned down with scores in the 1300s. What's the truth?</p>
<p>I would say that would be low for Ivies, but they seem to be looking at more than scores if there is something really impressive .
My daughter didn't apply but her cousin whose scores were pushing 1500 was denied from all the Ivies she applied to ( she wasn't URM but she did have a few unusual hooks)</p>
<p>"Northstarmom and alla, is 1200-1300 really in ivy range? My son who is a junior now will most likely score somewhere there. We've seen so many special kids, including URMs get turned down with scores in the 1300s. What's the truth?'</p>
<p>Not a lot of students get in in that range, but some do. I know of some URMS with such scores who got in. One was a legacy with a parent very involved in alumni affairs. The student had extremely strong leadership skills (that the student also demonstrated in a big way at the Ivy, forming a new organization with a national impac). </p>
<p>Another was a first generation college student, inner city school, a fairly unusual writing EC that resulted in an opportunity that the student won in a national competition, another was at a school that was medicore. However, the student was, valedictorian, class president, and had good ECs on a state level and an excellent essay.</p>
<p>To get into the Ivies,and S at that range, students (URM and non) need something rare and special: rural, low income background, recruited athlete, celebrity's kid, etc. </p>
<p>I also have seen URMs in that range and as high as 1410 rejected, though that doesn't seem to be as likely to occur if the student has unweighted gpas of 3.1 or higher in a rigorous EC, good ECs or awards (class president, valedictorian, things that wouldn't'be big tip factors for nonURMs).</p>
<p>I still think that taking the practice "Real SAT" tests are the most efficient prep, and the book doesn't cost much.</p>
<p>karen, </p>
<p>I bet his recs and his interview and his essays will be wonderful, because he sounds like a truly intellecuytal kid and not just a grade grubber. Put it together with athletics and I don't think you should be worried. Also, If his Jan SAT is bad, he has time to get religion and prep for another test in spring or fall.</p>
<p>I know some students here have reported upping the SAT score by studying, but at dd's school people who took a prep class were generally disappointed. She did not study--no time (except a couple of hours of 10 Reals to get the timing down.) She was happy with her relatively high score of 1490 and had no reason to retake. But she has always been a good test taker. I'd want to think that ppl who don't test well could improve by study, but we haven't personally met anyone who did.</p>
<p>I went to UCI on a Regents' Scholarship (full tuition and fees) and membership in the Campuswide Honors Program. I turned down Brown, Notre Dame, Berkeley, UCLA, UC San Diego, and USC. I'd do it again in a second.</p>
<p>Well, thesandman, you said "Spending hours on vocab is such a big waste of time." which I was responding to. I agree that memorizing lists is not very effective (reading things in context or learning roots is better), but it's much better than nothing.</p>
<p>Our son found the Real SAT book helpful. There are hints about when it's good to guess, for example. </p>
<p>Annoying but true--it can help the verbal score to memorize vocabulary words. I doubt it would help any but people who are great at memorizing. My son, who's not a reader, is a very good memorizer. He raised his verbal score over the summer 110 points (600 to 710) by memorizing the meanings of about 500 words. (He likes to memorize; for fun he memorized pi to 75 places.)</p>
<p>alicantekid....tell us more! One of my daughters is interested in UCI because of the reputation of the dance program and because she likes the idea of being in southern California (or NYC, one of the two!). What is the honors program like, and what about the rest of the campus offerings?</p>
<p>Patient-</p>
<p>I sent you a private message.</p>
<p>Farawayplaces: A friend of ours in college memorized pi to 4000+ places, and was in the Guinness book of world records for a year--till someone beat him!</p>
<p>This is kind of irrelevant since (a) it's my dad, not my kid, (b) it was 30 years ago, and (c) there isn't a huge gap between the colleges but...
My dad got a full Navy ROTC ride to University of Rochester and chose it over Tufts. If that helps at all...</p>
<p>Amused:
Memorizing word lists may be a better use of a kid's time than simply goofing off, but I feel there's a fundamental problem in tests like the SAT if significant score improvements can be achieved by students who do this. This may be idealistic, but kids should be spending their education time in high school doing more meaningful things.</p>
<p>I chose to go 40k in debt over a free ride. I made the right choice.</p>
<p>Your child will have to be in debt at some point in life ... going to an elite school has so many benefits that they will be denied of if they take the "financially safe" route ... as long as the elite school is "right" for them, I recommend going the expensive route.</p>
<p>Keep in mind you don't have to pay off those Staffords and Pells until you are OUT of school ... that means you can go straight through to the PhD and not pay a dime. Need a break in between degrees? Do Peace Corps.</p>
<p>I think it's a shame that people miss out because they go for the cheap school. If you LOVE learning and want to pursue an intellectual lifestyle, go for those loans.</p>