<p>Someone mentioned Rhodes scholars and I noticed TWO this year came from City College of New York. Fantastic students, both Russian immigrants (one who was homeless for a while when he first came here) who commented on the wonderful college education they got in the New York city system. One of those city colleges has some kind of honors program, maybe full free ride?
Maybe you New Yorkers know something about it. I know that several generations ago, CCNY was famous for teaching brilliant immigrant kids and then went through a period of decline. Sounds as if it's making a comeback.</p>
<p>Dstark, the SAT is something that studying and prep definitely help with. Knowledgeable prep--the kind of focused thing that Jamimom is talking about and giving examples of--is a killer.</p>
<p>The SAT measures nothing but how well you take the SAT. But the ability to prep for it is just one more advantage that some students have over others.</p>
<p>Thedad, a college counselor once said to me, the ACT measures some academic achievement, the SAT measures...NOTHING. Sounds like you are on the same page.
I hoped you missed my question somewhere in this thread and are around to answer it. I am curious, looking at the schools your daughter was interested in, did she seriously consider or visit the Arizona schools.</p>
<p>Sorry, Dstark, I must have missed your Q. Sometimes I'm in and out of the board quickly and don't read as intently as others.</p>
<p>Anyway, Arizona State would have been an absolute No. D does not like Phoenix a bit and then too the whole party school rep would have been an absolute turn off to her.
<em>If</em> she had been willing to consider "close" and <em>if</em> she was willing to consider a large school and <em>if</em> access to high-level ballet had not been one of her top criteria and <em>if</em> finances had been enough of consideration to force considering a less competitive school--and please mind that she turned down W for S--then I would have suggested she look at U/Arizona.</p>
<p>In a word: no. </p>
<p>However, I'm a contingency planner by inclination and U/Arizona was on the top of my recommendations of "freebie" National Merit schools for her. U/Oklahoma? Shudder. UT/Dallas? A pox upon them. Etc. Etc. Etc. For "that" sort of school, I actually like U/Arizona...and it's supposed to have a pretty good astronomy department to boot.
I'd pick U/Washington over it for academics and U/Oregon for location--no desert rats here--but neither one was offering freebies.</p>
<p>Then there's the religious question: I would have granted a waiver to her about going to a Pac-10 school outside of UCLA if she had gone to Stanford. U/Arizona? A dispensation would have been difficult.</p>
<p>LOL--TheDad, we felt that way about Big 10 schools. The only waiver we would have granted to go to one other than Mich was Northwestern, but S said he couldn't have gone to another Big ten school and rooted against Mich (who broke our hearts yesterday.) </p>
<p>So, instead, he goes to a school with one of the worst teams in the country, and he can root for MIch still with absolutely no sense of competition.</p>
<p>I think getting rid of the SAT1s as the UCs is proposing is a bunch of bunk since they are advocating more SAT2s to replace them. More and ornerous testing over a period of time. And it is so much easier to prep for a SAT2, than a SAT1 verbal. The new SAT1 is going to be a chop buster due to the length in time the variety of subject matter and the unpredictable nature of the essay question. </p>
<p>The ACTs are really more reading comprehension test than anything else. Kids who do well in that section of standardized tests will generally do very well in most of the ACT sections.</p>
<p>Thedad, I'm a contingency planner also. My wife isn't. Maybe that is why I am on this board and she isn't. I wish Washington and Oregon were offering freebies. There aren't too many name schools that offer freebies for NMF. I was not blown away be Phoenix the one time I was there. The homors college at ASU is run by somebody from Swarthmore and that intrigues me.</p>
<p>Garland, Michigan played great yesterday. I was pleasantly surprised. </p>
<p>jamimom, I read somewhere that Hemingway wouldn't score well in the writing section of the new SAT1. The fact that the ACT is primarily a reading comprehension test is good to know. Thanks.</p>
<p>I was rooting for Michigan, until I saw the adorable kicker from Texas all smiles moments before the final field goal attempt. As the mother of an athlete, and knowing what it is like when YOU and only you will determine the outcome of a huge game, my allegiance shifted to Texas in the last two seconds. But what a great game on both sides.</p>
<p>To most high school seniors, a full ride to Vandy, Emory, UNC, etc. would be too good to pass up no matter what other schools they get into. The only problem is there are maybe 500 of those huge scholarships at top 50 schools out there and it takes an insanely good people student/leader/community servant to get one. That's where you have to start looking at 50-100 level schools and NMF full rides. People that haven't visited those schools might be very suprised by the kinds of oppertunities they offer for individual attention for top students. Of course, then there are the Oklahomas which just want you for their next statistic. But when you look at the major fellowship winners, it suddenly becomes a lot more likely for students in good 2,000 person honors programs at a large state U, say Arkansas, to win major fellowship awards (7 Fulbrights and 3 Goldwaters last year) than for a student at an Ivy or Ivy-esque place with 6,000 students. For another example, look at Alabama- 4 USA Today All-Academic team members compared to 5 from Harvard last year. So it's actually more likely for a top student at a state U to win a major award than someone at an Ivy in many cases. It also depends a lot on the student and his/her ability to succeed with less structure in a large state school environment. </p>
<p>On the issue of the SATs, the Verbal you really can't prep as much for and to my knowledge measures verbal ability pretty well. Good English students score well and prep classes can only help to a certain extent; it's really something you have to prepare for by being a reader.</p>
<p>Vig180:
A quick aside on your comment about prepping for the SAT verbal... there's an active thread started by some kid under 'SAT Tests' that describes how he is making a flashcard for <em>each</em> of 3500 words from a Barron's list, and is attempting to memorize each of them to try & raise his SAT I verbal score. To me, this is depressing. This is not what our high-schoolers should be doing.</p>
<p>....<em>slap</em> OK, end of my mini-rant. I'm back to normal.</p>
<p>Garland, when Michigan went for the field goal on 4th & 2 at the 20 or whatever it was, I turned to my wife and said, "They're setting themselves up for a one-point loss." </p>
<p>I was sorry to see Texas win, both for rewarding that sucker-up-to-the-poll-voters Mack Brown and contributing to Texas ego, as if they needed any more. We met some Michigan fans while waiting at a restaurant on New Year's Eve and wished them well. Alas, it wasn't quite well enough.</p>
<p>Patient, how about the Iowa receiver who caught his first TD pass all season to beat LSU as time expired?</p>
<p>Dstark, for contingency planning I sometimes feel like the Slim Pickens character from "Dr. Strangelove" except there's that whole Texan thing kicking in again.</p>
<p>Btw, Garland, Smith sells a t-shirt that says "Smith Football: Undefeated Since 1871."</p>
<p>Thedad--I exhausted all of my football watching for the year on the Rose Bowl, sorry. Luckily the championship is in the New Year so I can watch one more tomorrow. Can only stand so much, you know--I try to understand the game but haven't gotten much beyond understanding the basic rules. But--that must have been exciting! </p>
<p>To add to my delight over the Texas kicker, it turns out he is a walkon! Ah, sports--the thrill of victory, the agony of defeat.</p>
<p>Agony of "Defeat"? Is <em>that</em> what they've been saying all these years? As a former cross-country runner, I thought they were talking about the agony of "da feet." I feel <em>so</em> non-plussed. All these years....</p>
<p>Sac,</p>
<p>The Honors College at CUNY has a four-year, financial aid package that includes:</p>
<p>All tuition and fees for fall and spring semesters.
Access to funds from the Honors College Foundation: Study Grant Program during sophomore through senior year designed to cover the cost of academically enriching experiences such as study abroad, living expenses during unpaid internships, professional development activities and senior research projects; and
A free laptop computer. </p>
<p>The seven participating CUNY colleges may offer their own additional financial aid and/or scholarships to University Scholars. </p>
<p>Quote:
"A quick aside on your comment about prepping for the SAT verbal... there's an active thread started by some kid under 'SAT Tests' that describes how he is making a flashcard for <em>each</em> of 3500 words from a Barron's list, and is attempting to memorize each of them to try & raise his SAT I verbal score. To me, this is depressing. This is not what our high-schoolers should be doing."</p>
<p>Wow optimizerdad I couldn't agree more. I read that same list, gave up midway through, and still got an 800 verbal. Spending hours on vocab is such a big waste of time.</p>
<p>Come on, at least he's committed to something. Would you rather him be spending hours online playing video games or doing drugs? We should stop feeling depressed about voracious studiers and focus on real teenage problems. And the sandman, just because you thought studying vocabulary was a waste of time, doesnt mean it's a waste of time for everyone. Maybe some people just aren't as smart as you.</p>
<p>On the SAT prep issue......my son, a hs junior, aspires to some highly selective schools. He is an athlete, and a lot will depend on where he is recruited. His SATs are not that strong compared to what I see on these boards. His school has the juniors take the January SAT (even though it is changing). He did 9 hours of private tutoring over this break, and felt it was helpful. However, he refused to take the practice SAT at the end- the one that shows how much you "improved" from the tutoring. He said he is through prepping. He hates the SAT and hates prepping. He would rather spend his time reading philosophy and good literature. His advisor at school, thinks the whole SAT thing is out of hand. He said no number on a test can capture the intellectual ability and curiousity of someone like my son. I felt that he should do a LOT more prep so that score wouldn't be such a weakness in his application. BUT-it is HIS college application process and not mine! So-maybe he will improve by May just from taking the test. He goes to a good academic boarding school (not one of the "top five") and he says the stories I tell him about the prep kids on this board do are absurd. His classmates are simply not doing this. Somehow they are getting into many fine colleges, including the Ivys. I just don't want him to miss out on a school he wants because he couldn't stand to prep for SAT!<br>
K.</p>
<p>" He hates the SAT and hates prepping. He would rather spend his time reading philosophy and good literature."</p>
<p>That in itself is excellent prep for the SAT and for college courses and life in general.</p>
<p>It's unfortunate that poor kids aren't able to prep for the SAT as much, whether because they can't afford programs like Kaplan or they can't spare the time to go through Ten Real SATs. But if the SAT measures whether a student is smart or whether they're willing to work hard and prepare, it seems like it's doing its job. Preparing for the SAT is much easier than studying for a test in a class where you haven't been paying attention all term, so if he isn't willing to prepare for the SAT, then chances are he'll be happier in a school that's slightly less work-intensive than the average Ivy.</p>
<p>That's the point- he is willing to go above and beyond as far as his class work. He is interested and challenged and has always gotten good grades. He started a Friday night philosophy group at his boarding school. I guess I don't see where not wanting to prep for a standardized test makes him unfit for an Ivy. He needs "like minded peers" around him. This doesn't have to happen at an Ivy, and there are other schools on his list. Not wanting to prep just means he might not get in! But-if he runs fast enough he just might.......</p>