Did anyone's child choose a free ride over a "more prestigious" school?

<p>There are a number of things I do not like about Early Decision, but it is a choice for students and their families to make. The only valid reason to back out of ED, is when some catastrope occurs that was not expected when the app is signed. I do know one young lady whose father was diagnosed with multiple myeloma, with a bone marrow transplant advised. She chose to back out of Ed to stay in town at a local college for that year to help out the family and be with her father who subsequently died. THAT to me is a good reason to back out of ED. Even then, it was really a pain in the neck for her, as colleges have rea¬ly moved onto other things by the time ED is over, and she wanted to make sure that her name was NOT on the ED list as one of the schools she was eyeing does examine the list. She had to writie several letters, have her counselor and her father's doctor and her clergy write the letters. She recognized that the day might come that she might want to apply to that school again, and wanted it clear that she was only båcking out because of this urgent matter that was not on the table when she signed the agreement. Schools do ask if you have applied there before, and it takes very little to find out what those circumstances are. There may come a day when you may want to be at Princeton, and you do have this skeleton in your closet. Better deals always come up and it takes a strong person to keep ones' commitment.</p>

<p>Usmominuk,
If you are extremely low income, that will be a plus if your child is applying to the most select colleges in the country. Virtually all of the top dozen colleges or so promise to meet 100% of students' documented financial need. Virtually all of the most competitive colleges have a hard time attracting qualified students who are very low income. Thus, being low income would be an advantage to your child during the application process. When it comes to the most select colleges, families like yours don't need the admissions advantage that ED offers at some colleges.</p>

<p>Meanwhile, when it comes to the financial aspects of college, probably only a small percentage of students are able to apply to college without considering factors such as finances. While something like 60% of students end up going to their first choice colleges, IMO in most cases, their choice of college was tempered by the realities of their family's finances. </p>

<p>Heck, with the exception of the small proportion of college students who base their choices mainly on prestige and academics, probably the majority of college students would like to go to University of Hawaii, but family finances prevent that from being under consideration.</p>

<p>More from Valdez:</p>

<p>"I am not economically disadvantages (income=~$80K)"</p>

<p>"I know I will qualify for financial aid. I mentioned my economic situation to show that we are not poor URM's. I don't know if the economic status if URM's are also taken into account."</p>

<p>He was expecting a free ride based on URM status alone!! But yet he says that he is not economically disadvantaged. He is looking for people to say, it's okay kiddo. Obviously he is going to do what he wants, i.e. go to A&M, and is looking for approval.</p>

<p>I find myself disagreeing with so many people on this thread today. Most families are not as aware about the getting into college process as some of the people on this board. Most people don't understand their financial siituation. Most people don't understand finances. Why do we have stock market bubbles? Why do we have reputable firms telling people to use the barbell style of investing in bonds and and then telling people this will protect them from higher interest rates and investors listening? Why do we have analysts continually going on tv and viewers listening to them, when these anaylysts have a track record worse than monkeys throwing darts at a stock market page?
People don't understand finances.
Princeton is giving Valdez a $20,000 break. They think the family should be able to pay about $20,000 a year. What does this mean? It might mean that the family has a net worth of around $500,000 not including the house. Or an income of a little over $100,000. Or some combination. Maybe a little more if there are siblings. Is this enough for the Valdez family?
I don't know and neither does anyone else on this board.
Nobody should put themselves in financial difficulties to go to school.
Financial problems trump ED.
How is Princeton hurt if Valdez doesn't go there?</p>

<p>Northstarmom - I understood that if you own your home, you could be expected to borrow against it and we cannot at this moment in time, which is why we felt we couldn't apply ED. If we were "gapped" at all, there was no way to make it up.</p>

<p>ukmom, your situation is extraordinary. You were willing to take a home equity loan as I have to in order to meet my college obligation if my children are to go to the schools of their choice. The point here is that ther are parents who choose not to do this. I had no idea it would be necessary for me until very recently. I then had a choice to do so or have my children limit their options. It's every individuals choice, and believe me, it was not an easy one. Had I chosen not to go into hock I would not have suggested the elimination of ED so that those who chose to make this spending a priority had to live with my priorities.</p>

<p>My S and our family had the same dilemma. Accepted ED to college A with $2000 loan. Accepted EA to college B with $22K/year merit scholarship. In S's cases, both schools equally competitive (just below HYPS).
You will get many posts berating your ethics for even considering A&M. We did, too. But your ethics is YOUR concern, not that of a bunch of folks who don't know you and are quick to judge. The whole ED commitment issue becomes very difficult when you face these financial matters - ED is not binding if your "financial needs" are not met (every school may be a little different in their exact policy) - and somehow schools decide they are the infalllible arbiters of your financial need. Or, they treat FAFSA/CSS as if they are infallible. </p>

<p>All of that said, SBmom and Yalebound both offered good advice. Go to a quiet place and decide what YOU want. I would add to that - talk frankly with your Guidance Counselor if you haven't already. Princeton will likely contact them if you renege and you want to know if your GC is on your side. Your situation mirrors my S's exactly - he had no idea he might receive such a substantial reward from B, or he would never have gone ED to A at all. The whole ED system serves the colleges, not the families.
Good luck and follow YOUR conscience, not the holier-than-thous advising you.</p>

<p>Also, for additional perspectives, see the posts on Princeton Review's message board under ED dilemma, especially the very informed views of collegehelper.</p>

<p>I personally think that Princeton will benefit if Valdez chooses to go elsewhere.</p>

<p>As for those who seem to think that Valdez is a naive student who was somehow hurt by the ED system, here's a quote from a post by Valdez on the Princeton board, ""as for my knowledge of fin. aid...i worked @ the fin. aid office @ Texas A&M...so i know a thing or two about financial aid at most institutions (unfortunately, not including princeton!)"</p>

<p>usmominuk
I fully understand why your D didn't apply ED. My point was that for people who are low income (and you seem to be in this category), when it comes to most elite colleges,their students don't need any advantage that ED may confer. </p>

<p>The elite colleges desperately want qualified low income students, so it's unlikely that your daughter reduced her chances of admission by not applying ED. What she has done is greatly expanded her chances of getting offers of financial aid that won't burden your family, and that (depending on the college) might even provide some extra financial benefit for the family. Depending on where she applied, the offers could include offers that require your family to pay nothing or that also provide summer jobs or travel for her.</p>

<p>If your financial needs aren't met, ED is not binding. The family should decide it their needs aren't met, not the schools.
I agree with jmmom.</p>

<p>Princeton is not hurt, only Valdez will be. dstark, the EFC is based on real numbers, what a family has, not what they may have lost at the hands of slimy brokers. The EFC assumes that education is a priority, not big houses, expensive vacations and time shares. From what I see, the biggest short fall for most families is the assumption that they will tap into home equity. This is certainly my case, my salary is largely spent on school tuition but I do have a CA home worth a whole lot more than I paid for it. Again, my priorities are not universal, but anyone can figure out what will be expected of them before their kid's apply. Is the assumption the school or the Government will make it comfortable for you to keep your nice home, retirement income and send your kid to Princeton? There is no free lunch. It is such a benefit for life to go to such a school, should there not be some pain?</p>

<p>Having considered all the posts and reconsidered my own advice, I think this dude should drop both pton and TAM and consider the creative writing program at Iowa, since he's created a very believable fictional character facing a very believable fictional dilemma. Dude, when your novel gets published, please send all of a us a review copy as a reward for replying so ardently.</p>

<p>choco--
those quotes are off of my "chances" thread--you are very incorrect in using them in this context of fin. aid. I was saying that I was a URM but not one that lives in a tough neighborhood/ tough situation and, thus, I wondered how this would affect my admissions chances. I never expected to get a full ride from A&M and much less Princeton. All those statements (except perhaps my family income) are completely irrelevant to the discussion at hand.</p>

<p>Whoever said I have my mind set on A&M is completely flawed and has not been reading my posts. I'm confident of my decisions regardless of what you may think...so none of you will make me choose one school or the other. I just appreciate hearing what other people have to say, especially from the opposition b/c I do want to consider every angle before a I make a decision that will impact the rest of my life.</p>

<p>Valdez - be very careful of some of the "advice" you are getting here. EG, "I assume you have told Aggie about your ED to Princeton." Take such advice only from your Guidance Counselor. Very much of the ED system is questionable, especially colleges forming "cartels" and informing each other of who has applied ED, etc. In this aspect, colleges are businesses marketing their wares, trying to "up" their stats in all the college rankings, acceptance rates, etc. They are out for themselves in competition with other colleges, and then they ask 17 year-olds to make binding commitments when they don't even know what they are binding to. When families decide to go ED, they THINK they know what their financial position is relative to potential offers from schools. Certainly they know their EFC. But they do NOT know how different schools will respond to the EFC, what their real chances of merit aid are. </p>

<p>The surprise of merit aid awards is the real "kicker" here. Students and parents are often shocked (positively) by what comes forward. They have, in fact, acted honorably. Like you, Valdez, my S had not only filled out his acceptance card but we had sent it in to A with deposit, when the merit award notice from B arrived. </p>

<p>All of the "posters" who say you and family knew what you were commiting to are missign part of the point. You knew your EFC, you were willing to do that. But you DIDN'T know that you might not have to because of unexpected merit aid. A contract, to be binding, should be a fully informed contract. And this aspect of ED simply is not.</p>

<p>Ultimately, the family needs to decide whether they can handle the pain.</p>

<p>Jami, I agree with most all you post. However, I could not disagree with you more on this one. ED does serve kids and families. The boost, the early answer, clearly there's a reason the knowledgable rush to ED. Everyone should understand the trade off. Clearly there must be a downside. Some other school will of course offer you more when you're dealing with ivies. How much more? Who knows? But part of the equasion has to be an understanding that of course a lower ranked school is likely to offer you more.</p>

<p>Usmominuk, the whole idea of ED was very simple. For those kids who absolutely know where they want to go to school, have all their ducks in a row for that school (including the money), in exchange for making this commitment to go regardless of whatever comes up, the college gives you an early answer and usually some favoritism in viewing the app, since such a student is a "bird in hand". In my day, few kids exercised this option. Mainly legacies. But with selective college admissions becoming so crazy these days, ED has become a way to gain an edge for admissions. The strategy of using ED has reached a point where it is often not the first choice for the kid. I am sorry to say I saw this in my own household this year when my son was sorely tempted to apply ED to NYU despite the fact it was not his first choice. Yes, he had good reasons, and when the ED acceptances to NYU came out, he had his regrets that he did not do so. But it would have been a strategic move on his part to get into a top theatre program early and with a higher probability. He knew that on the regular circuit, his chances would be about half of what the ED chances are for this program, or at least so he was told, and he believed. His school this year had 70% of the students applying early. Now does any one believe that 70% of any given group of 17-18 year olds knows precisely where they want to go to college? Of course they did not. They just wanted to get the whole danged thing wrapped up. They were tired of the process, and just wanted to get into a "name" school as soon as possible. And many of them said as much. </p>

<p>Now one of the things that you give up applying ED is the opportunity to compare financial aid packages. That is pretty clear. And who knows what you are going to get until you get it? Such kids can still apply EA or rolling. My son applied single choice EA and to three schools that had rolling admissions. Hardly a hardship. And he has until May to make his decision, so he can look at all of his choices. Had he applied to NYU and gotten in, his options would now be closed. That is where he would have to go. Though we did not have financial aid issues, for those who may have such concerns, NYU is not a particularly generous school and a year for his program there has to be one of the most expensive in the country at about $50K per year You are not going to get many money breaks living in NYC, believe me. The food is high, the board is high and it is not easy to find anything off campus that is cheaper as you can easily do in Pittsburgh or Cleveland. And is your child really going to lie low and ignore all of those wonderful things going on around him that cost money? So it is very clear that anyone who NEEDS a certain amount of aid, should not be applying Early Decision. </p>

<p>It is never fair for those who do not have the money vs those who do. Those with money can buy a number of things that can make any experience a bit easier. To expect any different with the college situation is naive. I am not defending the situation, but that is the way it is. It is unfair that a kid who really deserves to get into a school cannot go because his family won't and can't pay what the college feels it should. That is an inherent flaw in our college system, how when it comes down to it, the family's willingness to support a college decision is so crucial to making the whole thing work.</p>

<p>I agree with jmmom again.</p>

<p>Yalebound--I probably will end up writing a novel about my life experiences going to college. you heard it here first! I'll send everyone a copy</p>

<p>In life something better can always happen after you make a commitment. The type of person you are determines how you treat this better offer. My girls always would get the most enticing social offers the very weekend that they would commit to babysitting. The dream fellow just might ask you to the prom right after you have commited to just someone so you can go. These are not even contracts that you sign, and yet it is clear what the moral thing to do is. I think anyone who is Princeton material should have da˜ged well known that he could get a full ride somewhere.</p>

<p>Well if anybody is a scrofulous crapweasel in this situation it is Princeton and the elite schools like it who use their market dominence and in some cases cartel power to force consumers into an unfair situation. BTW we can be pretty sure the situation is unfair because if there really were an enforceable contract here you can be sure Princeton would be siccing their lawyers on kids who back out, few as they may be. I will also note that the schools retain their right to withdraw the offer for basically any reason they choose. Turns out you great uncle is the Grand Kleagle or worse works for Enron and you are out of there pal.</p>

<p>When it comes to morals or highmindedness what is moral about filling the bulk of your entering class with applicants who have promised to accept whatever you offer them? Then using the full tuition money to fund your high-minded diversity programs not to mention your other "needs" like a catcher for the baseball team. Most people here probably don't know it but the Ivy's have the highest atheletic recruiting budgets in the country and while they don't give "atheletic scholarships" they do give need based aid. Well guess what - we all have needs and how they get looked upon can vary with the speed of our fastball or our time in the 40 yard dash.</p>

<p>I can't solve your dilema Valdez and it is a dilema - avery tough choice. But I can tell you there is no question of homor or morals here. Do what you decide is best for you and yours in the long run.</p>