did my gre score just kill my chances of top schools?

<p>i'm applying for comp sci grad schools: berkeley, stanford, harvard, ucla, jhu, bu, nyu.</p>

<p>my general gre: 470V 730M</p>

<p>everything else on my record is decent:</p>

<p>-3.87 gpa (double major in comp sci and math, while taking 18-19 credits every semester)
-3 yrs of research experience (one with NASA)
-co-author on a patent-pending research result (from the above NASA work)
-2 internships (1 of which was with a VERY good research institute related to my desired field)
-teaching assistant (grader and lab ta) for a 2nd year class (data structures/algorithms)
-my letters of rec. will be pretty good (my best one will be from my department head)
-i expect my statement of purpose to be pretty good... im proofing it now</p>

<p>i'm almost willing to re-take the gre, but i'm doubtful: on practice tests, my max seems to be 550. i did memorize 200+ 'common' gre words, which didn't seem to matter at all since they weren't on there. plus, i doubt i'll realistitically have much time to dedicate to practicing for the gre, so obtaining a significantly increased verbal score seems unlikely.</p>

<p>any advice or words of support would be awesome. my belief is that nyu and bu are my only realistic chances :-(</p>

<p>Is English your native language? If not, can you use the TOEFL?</p>

<p>One of my S's profs told him that for top science/engineering/math programs, applicants should shoot for a verbal GRE score in the 70th percentile or higher. I think the vast majority of credible comp sci applicants to your top-school choices would have an 800 quant or very, very close to it. If you want to try to buff-up your score, you have to decide either to retake with lots of focused studying beforehand or give yourself more time to prepare and put off applying until later. I think you'll have the most success raising your scores by taking every practice test you can get your hands on under timed conditions (as well as additional vocab study; maybe try Barron's).</p>

<p>Your qualifications look great. I'd just worry that the scores might fall below a dept. cutoff and knock you out of consideration (at Berkeley and Stanford; don't know about the others). You should check with each school by e-mail and/or through their websites to see if they publicize average stats for admitted applicants. If your scores are not out of range, then write your SOP as if your life depended on it, i.e., the best writing you've ever done, focusing on your proven potential for research. Are you working with a faculty adviser at your school who can advise you on your apps, suggest programs where you should apply, read your SOP if asked and offer feedback, is in contact with colleagues at schools you're interested in? If you are, time to have a sit-down to assess your strengths and weaknesses. If not, you should probably find one. Good luck to you!</p>

<p>thanks for the reply! heh, yea, i'm a caucasian american with english as my only language. also, in each of my college english classes, i've had the highest grade in the class. i suspect that my writing score will be a 5. also, i could get an english teacher to write a very good letter for me (as a 4th or 5th letter of recommendation), just it seems trivial since i'm applying for c.s... the only point would be to demonstrate i'm not a moron with words.</p>

<p>i agree with you in that in order to buff-up my score, it'll require much time and practice. however, the time is what i lack--the comp sci gre is in november, so i already have to make time for that. plus, 2 other weekends are shot, including one for the ACM southeast regional programming competition :-/ as for applying for a later semester, that's not an option: this is my last semester as an undergrad (double majoring required 4.5 years), so i will already be not in school during the spring and summer... i can't imagine taking a ~1.66 year break from college.</p>

<p>as for the mentor you suggested, i've been doing research under the same professor for 2.5 years now. he's very unfriendly/impersonal, but i get the impression he does care for my success; he's strongly recommended that i apply for the NSF fellowship. he went to columbia but has no contacts, i believe. the top schools don't seem to publish any average scores or have minimums. however, berkeley and another state that "most successful applicants receive scores in the 90% percentile or better" i plan to speak w/ my research boss and ask him if he thinks i should re-take it. and yea, i guess maybe e-mailing the other school departments would be useful. thanks again!</p>

<p>research,academic work, GPA and transcript > GRE score</p>

<p>yea, thanks for the reminder... kind of makes me feel less bad</p>

<p>only berkeley and harvard STRONGLY recommend the comp sci gre. i imagine i'm already rejected from berkeley w/ this 470V, but i'll still apply. however, i think i just won't take (or won't study) for the comp sci gre exam; rather, i'll just study and re-take the general gre in mid to late november. most of the app deadlines are dec 15th... so hopefully the scores will make it in time. and, i just won't apply to harvard, but will apply to yale and duke instead... (they don't STRONGLY recommend the comp sci exam)</p>

<p>i am planning on applying to comp sci grad schools as well.
Let me know how everything goes</p>

<p>What about MIT and Caltech? These schools and the ones you listed all offer edge in CS and they will provide you with information, quality acadmics, projects that have you busy for the rest of your graduate studies. In addition to meeting people that are like you.</p>

<p>1) Academics/transcript/GPA
2) Research/interships
3) GRE score</p>

<p>The reason why these schools have a high GRE score is because the students have all these qualities, which is another method of narrowing the pool of applicants.</p>

<p>i'm not going to apply to mit because i'm already applying to enough reach schools (berkeley, stanford, harvard). plus, i prefer those over mit because mit is a more tech-focused school. although it does have much strength in other areas, i rather go to a school that doesnt' have the word 'tech' in it... my school, florida tech, has been enough of a nerd-fest for me... i want well-rounded people to exist SOMEWHERE on campus :-)</p>

<p>so, i'm not applying to caltech for the same reasons. plus, i've always heard that it's very dismal and not well-rounded.</p>

<p>below is my updated, longer list of schools to which i'll apply:
berkeley (<em>) = 1
stanford = 1
harvard (</em>*)= 15
ucla = 15
columbia = 18
brown = 22
johns hopkins = 28
nyu = 29
dartmouth = 40
bu = 56</p>

<p>harvard is the only school that REQUIRES the comp sci gre. berkeley and some other highly recommend it. i might send it... i might not. i'm sure i'll do poorly on it.</p>

<p>thanks for the responses though.</p>

<p>Okay. Don't give up, work hard in college, study like crazy, make your professor your best friend, etc. and you should at minimum get into several of these schools. Make sure you have a "passion" and emphasize it with interships or other activites you have been involved in that's related to CS.</p>

<p>By the way, if your accepted to stanford, are you going to help on winning the 2nd grand challenge? Point that out on your application or visit some CS graduates, tell them that your interested, etc.(if decide you are). This should help you application to a extend.</p>

<p>Here is the grand challenge I'm talking about:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/darpa/program.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/darpa/program.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p><a href="http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8594517128412883394&q=grand+challenge%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8594517128412883394&q=grand+challenge&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>yea, thanks. i'm aware of the grand challenge :-) competing in that would be amazing. my statement of purpose has been reviewed a few times, and i'm pretty sure its final version won't differ too much from what it is now. in it i mention my passion and how it developed throughout my work and research experiences. it's ~750 words (almost 2 pages)... i tried to keep it short, although some schools seem not to care at all. lol, brown says, 'write less than 50 pages' that's hilarious.</p>

<p>oh, and i just found out that mit's eecs department doesn't consider gre scores. so, i decided to apply there instead of harvard and just say screw taking the cs gre--since harvard was the only school that actually required it. a part of me is already willing to accept much rejection, but it's okay because i think i'll be pretty happy even if i get into brown. i think i would like it there. man, this grad school process is consuming me lately.</p>

<p>anyway, thanks for the advice!</p>

<p>I think since your qualifications are so high & your letters of rec. should be excellent - the schools you apply to (although top tier schools) may not care as much about your gre score.</p>

<p>Although, this is coming from someone who never even took the GRE. I decided to apply to grad school at UC Davis on a whim (and only UC Davis)...
Cummulative GPA: 3.83
GPA in major: 3.95 ish (I got one B)
Major: Chemistry
Experience: 3.25 years of undergraduate research + one summer internship at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory
- co-author on paper from LLNL summer research
Other Awards: Prized Writing 05/06, Departmental Citation
Personal Statement: wrote it in about an hour, proof read it & submitted the application.</p>

<p>So, I half-assed my whole application - was accepted & was handed a 30k/year fellowship while everyone else in the department gets 21k for being a TA. I think that if I put in minimal effort and you are actually putting in effort - someplace is going to accept you. (granted UCD isn't a top tier school but still)</p>

<p>Don't fret about GRE scores and grades at all. The primary (and pretty much ONLY) criteria for admissions into a Computer Science Ph.D. program is the quality of your RESEARCH EXPERIENCES as an undergraduate. Nothing else matters, as long as they don't stand out in a really negative way (such as having a 1.3 GPA and scoring -27 on your GREs).</p>

<p>ct9999 - it seems like you have enough research experiences to make a strong application (i assume you can get your previous research advisors to write your reference letters). Make sure that your statement of purpose BRINGS OUT THE BEST OF YOUR RESEARCH EXPERIENCES. You seem to have enough to talk about, so make the best of your statement and don't fill it up with fluff about how you're really enthusiastic or hardworking --- show, don't tell --- show that you're enthusiatic and hardworking by describing WHAT you've worked on instead of just saying "I'm enthusiatic and hardworking, really!" You are already way ahead of lots of applicants because you have several years worth of solid research experience ... make sure that shines in your application! Research is all that matters; everything else is just (thin) icing on top of the cake.</p>

<p>Read my grad. school app tips:
<a href="http://web.mit.edu/pgbovine/www/grad-school-app-tips.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://web.mit.edu/pgbovine/www/grad-school-app-tips.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>... and fellowship app tips:
<a href="http://web.mit.edu/pgbovine/www/fellowship-tips.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://web.mit.edu/pgbovine/www/fellowship-tips.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>for more detailed rambling ;)</p>

<p>Best of luck.</p>

<p>ct9999 - I think it's a GREAT idea for you to apply to MIT, because in my opinion, you have a much better chance of getting into MIT than Stanford or Berkeley (your Big 3 'dream schools'). Here's why: The MIT Ph.D. program is pretty big, I think 1.5x or maybe even 2x the size of Stanford's and Berkeley's programs. This means that the admissions committee can reach out to consider a more diverse pool of applicants from not so well-known universities (such as Florida Tech). A smaller and more exclusive program (e.g., Stanford/Berkeley) usually admits higher proportions of students from top-ranked schools. I knew several Computer Science Ph.D. students while I was at MIT who came from non-top-ranked undergrad institutions, and they all told me that they were rejected from Stanford and Berkeley but were accepted by MIT. I encourage you to take your MIT application VERY seriously and work hard on it (but don't ********, because MIT professors are way smarter than you), and don't worry about your grades or GRE scores (because MIT doesn't consider GREs). Out of your top 3 dream schools, I think you have the best shot at MIT. (That said, the admissions rates to MIT CS Ph.D. are still ridiculously low, and the competition is still top-notch, so don't be complacent.)</p>

<p>wow. thanks a lot man for the helpful info!</p>

<p>oh, and i was wondering: when do grad schools request to see an updated transcript? i graduate in december, and i wasn't sure if the schools will ask to see my fall 06 grades BEFORE or AFTER they make their admittance decisions.</p>

<p>Wow, it's Mr. Guo. I've been to your website before while searching Google for application advice. Welcome to CC.</p>

<p>In terms of updated transcripts, I don't remember when they want them. But again, one semester of grades (fall 06) makes so little difference that I wouldn't stress out about it at all.</p>

<p>(I'm new to CC ... how do you quote people's writings and have it indented in that block style?)</p>

<p>The vB code page is [url=<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/misc.php?do=bbcode%5Dhere%5B/url"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/misc.php?do=bbcode]here[/url&lt;/a&gt;]. </p>

<p>I will note that I know pgbovine. Like, in real life. The internet rocks.</p>

<p>pgbovine,</p>

<p>I'm currently a under. freshman, and I will be doing research at my home institution summer 07. However, the next summer 08 I'm planning to do research at a different university, and take an internship during school year. Do I ask for my recommendations when I finished doing research at a particular institution, or when I apply to graduate schools? Although I'm planning on doing at least 3 research projects (as you mentioned) over the summer (if not more), I will want to get my MS in molecular, cellular, biochemistry, or something related to CS (such as AI, etc.) before applying for Ph.D program. Also, I'm planning on transfering to a different college during soph. year, because the current college I'm currently present has too many core requirement and distribution requirements, which I hate (to some extend) since I want to focus on my physical and biological sciences more in detail. Is it a good idea for me transfering?</p>

<p>RHSstudent07 - you should ask for letters when you apply to graduate schools. If you've done a good enough job on your research, your supervisors should remember you well enough to write a good letter several years down the line. When you ask for letters, you can send them a brief synopsis of the work you did for them, just to refresh their memories.</p>

<p>As for transferring to a different undergraduate college, the decision is up to you. I can't give any helpful advice there :/</p>

<p>And don't worry too much about the number of projects you'll be involved in (3 isn't a strict requirement!); if you're involved in 1 or 2 and really are into them and dedicate yourself for a few years, then that looks better than if you jump around from project-to-project without focusing deeply on one.</p>

<p>rhs, i recommend staying at ur current school, although i don't really know all the particulars about ur situation... i know that soon as i got here (florida tech) i wanted to transfer to MIT. it was just a childish dream and i was turned-off by fit students' lack of motivation... yet staying here was the best decision i could have made. ur situation is possibly much different, yet i still think it's crazy to transfer to another school for only 2 yrs... especialyl if the primary reason is to build up your credentials for grad school. you should have ample opportunities at ur current school... at least enough that the difference isn't worth transferring and having to deal with lost credits and getting to know new professors...</p>