DD19’s college apartment didn’t either, and when DD’17 got her apt she wasn’t employed, but she took a sublease so that might have made a difference. I’m sure not all apartments would have required it, but, it was a very limited set of options this summer so it definitely helped her to have a co-signing parent.
These types of classes may exists at all schools and students studying stem may still take them as electives or to meet core requirements. What was your nieces major at Bowdoin?
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We have guided our kids towards more lucrative majors based on very good knowledge of their strengths and weaknesses, their personalities and personal lifestyle preferences. What’s wrong with parental guiding? They know that they have our unconditional support no matter what they choose to study or work in if they put the effort.
We have also guided our adventurous daughter to go live in a more egalitarian society where the government (and not trust funds) provides a safety net for people to pursue their interest withour worrying that they will end up on the streets without proper health care. Also, we believe we guided her to a place with better work-life balance which is very important for my kids and my H and I. This trumps excessive amounts of money in our books. So far, so good - she is in a fast-paced career program right out of college and does work long hours but not on weekends and with 6 weeks vacation which she is taking full advantage of. Her counterparts in the US get higher salaries but have lower quality of life.
She is very well paid comparatively speaking and including the COL and fully self-supporting. She saves half her salary which will be sufficient to cover all expenses for a masters degree if her employer does not cover it.
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Yup, and sometimes (counter intuitively perhaps) the “better” cheaper apartments may require a co-signer whereas a pricier one may not. Yet another factor that CAN (not always of course) be a stumbling block for an FGLI student. Also, most apartments require a deposit, so you would have to either have been working all year long before you graduate to accumulate that or the previous summer or whatever.
I would float my kids the deposit for the 1st apartment, on the expectation that they pay me back ASAP and figure it out. A million years ago, I had the deposit for my first apartment because I lived at home at 30k/year for 4 months in my 1st job.
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There’s nothing wrong with guidance, if you have excellent knowledge of their strengths and weaknesses, like and dislikes. I think issues can arise sooner or later if one guides a kid towards a career that they are not suited for or if they don’t get to “try and fail” for a bit.
I mean, all this is theoretical for me, because as I said, my kids want to live in some comfort, and don’t mind us suggesting things that would help them in that respect.
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In the submarket I’ve started to look at for off-campus student housing, it seems that parents aren’t always required to sign and the price for student-targeted housing also seems higher. So this would support the theory that the landlord waives the guarantee for a higher return. Also, student apartments I’m guessing do not have same eviction issues that regular apartments have. Students probably leave on time.
Well, IMO, it’s not that simple, because there’s a spectrum from “free range” parenting (let kids gravitate to whatever major they choose, sans parent involvement) to “pounding a square into a round hole” (you will do X no matter what or you’re on your own) parenting.
And everything in between.
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Yeah, I don’t think taking a class that involves Marxism or Women’s gender studies would impact future earnings. I took a class in World Music in college and I doubt that had any effect on my career…
Why are people so afraid of their kids being indoctrinated? Are they not raising their kids to think for themselves? Says more about the parents and the kids then it does about the college or the class or the professor. I’m not worried about my kids being indoctrinated. My kids are smart enough to think for themselves.
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I’m just curious. If you consider any education on the topics of Gender Studies, Sexuality or Womens studies to be leftist indoctrination, would it be accurate to consider the study of Business Management and Finance to be right wing indoctrination? After all, preparation for careers in IB and the like are solidly in support of Capitalism.
I’m just wondering if indoctrination cuts both ways.
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D18 just sent me this picture of her Gender Studies class:
I’m kidding, of course. It’s summer, no classes for her.
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Same with me. D needed gallbladder surgery right when she started her new job and we paid for most of that. She was in a lot of pain and it would’ve been bad if she hadn’t had the surgery. That was an exception. Luckily her cobra from her old job covered a good portion of it.
If anybody wants to debate the topic of indoctrination, could we maybe do that elsewhere?
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I understand. I think “guiding” is the right term and precludes any pounding. Wouldn’t know for sure, I am not a native english speaker ;). It seems to me that it is more common than not that people would guide their children or suggest things (as the title of this thread says). Reading through this thread, it seems that a lot of parents prefer the “free range” parenting. Where I live, this is extremely uncommon. Here the spectrum is shifted from suggesting things to helicopter/buldozer style.
ETA: On the flip side, I would 100% support my kids if they find themselves in difficult situations through no fault of their own. They will always have a place in my basement. They are independent, hard-working kids but if they cannot make it, we are there for them. I think this is a cultural trait.
The other thing is, studying about something does not necessarily mean agreeing with it. One can study Marxism or Marxist viewpoints without being (or turning into) a Marxist, for example. An analogous example is studying about a religion without being or becoming a member or believer of that religion (e.g. religious studies courses at non-religious schools).
Gender studies could be a highly difficult or rigorous topic. If it were easy, would the divorce rate be lower?
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And that’s the spectrum that I was referring to, zero guidance (“free range”) to helicopter/bulldozer (“square peg, round hole”).
I don’t know about a lot of parents, but you can count this parent as being closer to the “free range” side of the spectrum.
My parents didn’t suggest majors and/or careers to me and my siblings and my spouse and I didn’t suggest majors and/or careers to my kids.
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Bowdoin shows a similar type of pattern to every other college that has been mentioned in this thread,. Students who pursue majors associated with higher earnings tend to have higher earnings early in their career. Some specific numbers from CollegeScorecard are below for 3 years out. You mentioned nursing, which is also associated with higher early career earnings.
Computer Science – $122k
Mathematics – $84k
Economics – $78k
In contrast students who major in humanities and do not pursue further degrees tend to earn less on average. There are plenty of exceptions, but having roommates or not being able to afford a house might be common (many single persons don’t buy houses soon after colleges for a variety of other reasons besides just cost). This isn’t specific to Bowdoin and likely has very little to with whether students take the 2 courses you listed or similar ones.
The colleges that are most discussed on this website usually require students to take classes in a variety of fields outside of the major. I wouldn’t call this “indoctrination”, but there is exposure to a lot of different areas. For example, I attended Stanford. They seem to make large changes to these out of major requirements every few years. The current requirements include courses (usually just 1) in the following areas. I listed both the grouping name and an example course. Everyone has to fulfill these requirements, regardless of major.
- Aesthetics and Interpretive Inquiry (Intro to Archeology)
- Applied Quantitative Reasoning (Mathematics of Sports)
- Civic, Liberal, and Global Education (Why College? Your Education and the Good Life)
- Creative Expression (Wild Writing)
- Ethical Reasoning (Ethics in Bioengineering)
- Exploring Difference and Power (Crime and Punishment in America)
- Formal Reasoning (Intro to Decision Analysis)
- Scientific Method and Analysis (Science of COVID-19)
- Social Inquiry (Wealth of Nations)
- Writing (The Rhetoric of Gaming)
- Writing in Major (Electrical Eng Digital Design Lab)
Some students do change in college and some may choose to pursue less lucrative areas, such as focusing on how they can better improve community/world, rather than how they can make the most money. It’s possible such courses had an influence, but I expect there are usually many other far more influential factors
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When I hear the words “free range” parenting, it comes across as allowing minor children to do anything they want with no rules, etc. Stay out as late as you want? Sure. Go anywhere you want? Sure. Act up and be disrespectful? No consequences.
To me, that is far different than supporting your young adult 18+ in their interests of what they want to pursue in college and as a career. I don’t think a parent should tell them what they have to study or what fields they can and cannot pursue as adults. Supporting their choices of major and career field after age 18 isn’t the equivalent free range do whatever you wish with no rules or boundaries growing up. But even as minors, I think supporting your kids’ interests is the way to go…I would never tell my kid “you have to do this extracurricular activity” for instance. They chose those.
We all have different styles of parenting but I don’t think supporting your kids’ genuine interests means “free range” parenting across the board. Same with if you support your child’s sexuality. I strongly believe in supporting my kids’ interests, sexuality, and things of that sort, but that doesn’t mean when they were growing up that they had no rules or guidelines across the board.
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You’re right; the family lived modestly and were not materialistic. Her mom, however, laments that her daughter cannot rent an apartment alone, will not be able to buy a place in the foreseeable future, and does not make enough to save for retirement.
Guess it could be worse. Some parents push their kids to Try Harder! to go to medical school, but the kids never get admitted to medical school, so the kids go into some other career with much lower pay and (in the parents’ eyes) prestige.
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I should have been more specific, my bad, I meant “free range” in the context of this thread’s topic of college degrees, jobs and careers.
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