<p>Kristen, just say NO.</p>
<p>A life choice question. Would you marry guy who had 130K+ debt to pay off and had a low paying career?</p>
<p>Don't do it. </p>
<p>I would be irresponsible as a parent to let my kids take on that kind of debt. </p>
<p>Really, check this site out for a reality check.
Thanks to the parent who posted this on another site: <a href="http://www.csumentor.edu/FinAid/SLOPE/%5B/url%5D">http://www.csumentor.edu/FinAid/SLOPE/</a></p>
<p>When daughter began the application process, it was with the stipulation that no matter where she was accepted, financial aid package would be the ultimate decision factor. Her goal is medical school and no way we could see her with a huge debt prior to grad school. Yes she's bummed about staying in state, however, she will have graduate and then be in a position of endless possibilities.</p>
<p>It will depend on individual student and family situation. How adoptive you are and how much you will be influnced by campus culture/environment. I could see how each campus experience could be different in shaping individual's life. As an international student I did choose my dream (graduate)school with a tuition scholarship over 3 ivys with full ride. My parents were willingly paying for it. It has been 38 years and I have had no regret about my choice.</p>
<p>Kristin - It may help to think of the extra $130K as an "opportunity" cost rather than a "purchase cost." In this case it's the "opportunity" to attend the school of your choice. So, here's an alternative way to think about this situation. What if the non-refundable cost of application to UVa was $65K, and if you got in the extra cost was a second $65K? It's the same $130K you're looking at now. Would you have even applied to UVa? Where would you have gotten the $65K to apply, even if you were confident of being accepted? You see it's real money, regardless of whether it's paid now or later.</p>
<p>from inverse, above:
[quote]
I could see how each campus experience could be different in shaping individual's life.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I don't disagree with this in the least. Students who choose large flagship publics do have to be very careful about their choices, not only with regard to friends and activities, but the courses they sign up for and the majors they pursue. Kristin, if you attend Mizzou, do the honors program. If you are not automatically eligible, work hard your freshman year, get some prof recommendations and apply after a semester or two. The honors classes with which I am familiar are far more rigorous, much smaller and present an excellent opportunity to get to know--and impress--some full professors. Think long and hard, and investigate carefully, if you are considering the Greek scene there. </p>
<p>Can you get through Mizzou without ever learning much? Absolutely, I have nieces and nephews to prove it. Can you get through Mizzou with a record that gets you acceptance into a top PhD program and a rewarding, as well as financially comfortable, career? Absolutely, and I have a husband to prove it. It is up to you.</p>
<p>menloparkmom - on other threads, your story has presented compelling arguments for knowing yourself when making the financial choice. But, will your son personally be responsible for over 125,000 in debt when he graduates (even if you cosign) or will you be shouldering some of the extra debt? Big difference in what working adults with assets take on as debt and what a new graduate takes on. If OP is accurate and is expected to shoulder all this debt himself, other things like job oppotunities in major and internship pay opportunities rather than just perfect fit and "dream school" status must be taken into account. Although probably a very different atmosphere, both of these schools are larger state universities rather than smaller private/state versus larger private/state.</p>
<p>Wow. Thanks to the person who posted the loan calculators. Plugging in $130k of student loan debt into the second one showed you need a salary of $224,406 to pay that off comfortably in the 10 year pay out period. Now what college student really thinks they will earn anywhere near that amount. Yeah, maybe you'll get that as a hot shot Wall Street lawyer or a doctor, but by then you'll have an additional $130k of loans for the fancy law school or the med school, so then you'll need about $500k in salary to keep up. There are very few doctors or lawyers making anywhere near $500k.</p>
<p>Using that same calculator, I plugged in $55k, the average starting salary (roughly) for an engineer (a degree a lot of CC kids think they'll get rich from). The max student loan debt recommended is $31,861. Quite a ways from what some of these kids and their families seem willing to take on.</p>
<p>I would be ok with my kid taking out the maximum allowed Stafford loans (at the current levels/rates) to attend a dream school, and also doing work/study, summer jobs, etc to make ends meet, but for most college majors I'd say that should definitely be the max, no matter what the school is. If you can't afford it on that, then you can't afford it and hopefully you've gotten in a good financial safety. Save the big bucks student loans for grad school.</p>
<p>As for how kids are getting 6 figure loans, the answer is your friendly banker down the street who gets the parents to cosign. My friends who are doing this say the kid is going to pay them back, or assume the loan at some point. These are not PLUS loans, they are just loans. In the specific I know, both parents work and there is a younger sibling (who says she is not going to borrow more than $10k max even if it means going to the local state u), a mortgage, car notes and their retirement to be concerned about but hey, they just wrap themselves up in their ivy league afghans and don't think about it. They're doing it for a math degree.</p>
<p>The loan calculator really opens your eyes. </p>
<p>In my personal experience in the dark ages, I <em>did</em> turn down the OOS school for the in-state flagship. I was unhappy about it at the time. Did it make much difference in my life? Probably not. Same program, same degree, just from the instate U, rather than the more romantic out of state U. And when I visited OOS, the kids all said why did I want to go to <em>their</em> state U -- they all wanted to go to mine!</p>
<p>Is it worth the debt? NO!
See what you can finagle for a summer term or a semester as a visiting student.</p>
<p>This thread just proves that kids really have no idea how much $130,000 really is. Yikes.</p>
<p>Go to Mizzou. Be happy. :)</p>
<p>Many kids also think that unless they go to their dream school, their lives are ruined. There was a kid on Princeton thread who wanted to take gap year because he could not get in this year.</p>
<p>ah the first college, the first girlfriend.. we all thought that was the only thing going. blah..</p>
<p>You would have to be looking for post grad education to justify a 130k of debt, so in reality your talking about maybe 250-300 of debt for an education. Ever want to own a house? Ever want a retirement? Start plugging the real world expenses into your life. Do you expect to travel? buy a car? Look at what things cost and then look at your average salary for the profession you're hoping to go into. When do you hit the plus side of the math?</p>
<p>Good luck and start to think about responsibility for your life. How much do you want others to own of you?</p>
<p>130K in debt in my opinion equals:
Postponing buying your first car, house
Delaying having children till you can affored $10000 per year for infant child care
No vacations, no retirement planning</p>
<p>Not worth it in my estimation</p>
<p>
[quote]
As for how kids are getting 6 figure loans, the answer is your friendly banker down the street who gets the parents to co-sign.
[/quote]
Hey, if the parents are that craz...uhhh...insa.....uhh....delusio.....uhhh...if they can afford to pay it, and they WILL be paying it ;) - I say go for it. :eek:</p>
<p>But my point remains the same, nobody will loan a kid that much money for UG. The co-signor of the note is whose credit they are relying upon, and like I said Charlie Manson can get that note with the right co-signor.</p>
<p>i dont understnad who usa today surveyed and found that only 4% of people dont go to top choice because of $$$. i would think the number is much higher</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>But, Curmudgeon, if the kid really, rilly, REALLY wants to go to the expensive school, it will all magically work out, right? Right?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Oh. Since you put it THAT way. Nevermind. ;) I didn't know it was a case of really, rilly, REALLY wants to go. I should have read more carefully.
(I'm with you WashDad. Magical thinking is right.)
And if you close your eyes real tight and click your heels together and say "There's no place like ...." "AuntieEmm, is that really you?" "Nope . I'm the trustee in bankruptcy come to take possession of the farm. Who'd you think I was? Gimmee that little dog, too."</p>
<p>
[quote]
If UVA is that important to you, why don't you look into what it takes to establish residency in Virginia? I would imagine that you could defer for a couple of years and move to VA to work. That way you could save up some money and get in-state tuition at the same time.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>As long as she is an independent student, she will be a resident in the state that her parents reside no matter where she physically lives. Most schools have very tight rules about establishing residency for the purpose of instate tuition where in most cases it does not matter if you move there, register a car or vote, if you are under 24 years old, unmarried, no kids, have not served in the military or were not a ward of the court before your 18th birthday, you are a resident where your parents live.</p>
<p>It always amazes me to hear students talking about borrowing these massive amounts of money. As a student the most you can borrow (with out a co-signer)
Is:</p>
<p>Subsidized/unsubsidized Stafford loans</p>
<p>3500 freshman year
4500 sophomore year
5500 junior year and each year until you receive your first bachelors. Total $19,000</p>
<p>If your parents are not eligible for a PLUS loan, you may borrow an additional 4000 per year as an unsubsidized Stafford loan – total 20,000</p>
<p>There are also cumulative limits of $23,000 for an undergraduate education and a $65,500 combined limit for undergraduate and graduate. (For independent students and for students whose parents were denied a PLUS loan the cumulative limits are $46,000</p>
<p>If you are considered have an exceptional financial need then you can borrow 4000 a year through the Perkins loans with a cumulative limit of 20K for undergraduate education.</p>
<p>However, if your parents are not willing to take on the debt, once you find that fool with the pen to co-sign for an 18 year old’s massive debt keeping mind that student loans can not be written off as part of a bankruptcy so you will be paying this debt for a long time.</p>
<p>Starting out at 22 years old having to pay off 6 figure debt drastically limit your life choices, as others stated, </p>
<p>there will be no first apartment (you won't make enough to pay rent and the loan)</p>
<p>no new cars (you won't make enough for the loan, car and insurance payments), </p>
<p>no vacation</p>
<p>no professional school (as some law medical schools tell you off the bat to make sure you are credit worthy, because there will be loans as part of your package. If you are not eligible for loans, you cannot attend)</p>
<p>maybe limited relationship prospects, because very few people are going to want to carry you and your pal- DEBT.</p>
<p>the one great thing about dreams are you can always dream new ones. Dream a new dream!!</p>
<p>I turned down Stanford for UMD-College Park because the loans required for me to go there would have been around the cost of my parents' first mortgage (even with my college fund). When I looked at it that way, and thought about the fact that my siblings were both in private schools and would be in college either while I'm at school (brother who is a junior) or right when I graduate (sister is a freshman), I could not in good conscience ask my parents to help shoulder that financial burden--nor did I want to think about trying to pay off $80,000-150,000 in loans on an entry-level salary. There was no way to argue that Stanford was worth $160,000 more than the University of Maryland, especially since at the time I was an engineering major and both schools are ranked highly. So I took the full scholarship (with a book and personal expense stipend), got addicted to the UMD-CP forum on this site, and put California out of my mind (for a time).</p>
<p>Almost one year into my college career as a Terrapin, I am the happiest I have ever been in my life, and I harbor no regrets about my decision. I have made wonderful connections with my fellow students, have met and formed connections with some amazing faculty, and have just such a great overall experience.</p>
<p>A few perks of not spending 100K on a college education:
I can afford to study abroad/go on vacations to foreign lands
I can afford to go to the concerts I want to go to
I can afford to eat non-meal plan food
I won't be too destitute when I graduate with an B.A. in English Language and Literature and a B.A. in (Secondary) English Education. (Big jump from engineering, I know) I shudder to think how I would pay off student loans, rent an apartment, and find a mode of transportation on a teacher's starting salary.</p>