I thought the way College Board did it was standard and what most colleges go by?
Yes. My son graduated in 2020. He had a 3.52 at a very hard private school, with course rigor. He also had a 34 (taken once) on the ACT. He applied ED to Colorado College and was accepted. It is a great fit for him. He was a competitive rock climber. His GPA was just slightly below the average GPA in Naviance for his school, but his ACT was the highest of the admitted students from his school. We are full pay. I think he picked well for him.
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I think you had them at “full pay” and “early decision” the two things a school that is need aware loves. They give only 1/3 of kids need based aid at CC.
Don’t get me wrong - your son is very qualified. But schools like CC and Tufts -and they have very low acceptance rates so congrats to your son because many like him will get turned down - but part of their low acceptance also comes in the form of being able to reject very qualified students - who don’t show up with the $$. They are, for lack of a better set of words, colleges mainly for the wealthy.
I see nothing wrong with this from a parental POV btw - so i’m not guilting anyone. We all work hard to be able to provide for our kids - and you are providing him a wonderful experience that’s he’s experiencing.
And I think your story also shows - no pain, no gain - meaning you can’t get in if you don’t try. Someone I’m informally advising just got turned down with a 3.7 UW and I think 32 ACT…I believe full pay (they have their college employer helping to pay) - but not ED.
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Kids who are not at the top of their classes can and do get into their reach schools. My kid was a good but not exceptional student at a competitive suburban public HS. He was on the AP honors track w/a rigorous course load, and he had an unweighted 3.5 GPA after his junior year. If his HS did rank, he would have barely squeezed into the top 25%. He didn’t have any obvious hooks for his reach but one: he had attended Davidson’s July Experience summer program run by their admissions office between his junior and senior year. He enjoyed the 3+ week program w/classes taught by Davidson profs so much so that he applied ED and is now happily at Davidson. Both he and Davidson knew what they were each getting when he applied. In his case, the combination of strong genuine demonstrated interest and ED application made a difference.
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Yes, I guess what I was trying to say is that your student should look at all factors in his/her favor, whatever that might mean, and maximize his/her chances based on those factors. If they do that, a kid with a lower GPA has a shot at a highly selective school.
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I think for kids that have slightly lower gpa’s (compared to the typical 4.0 on CC) going ED is probably critical in terms of being accepted into a reach school. We didn’t pursue it because my son didn’t have any clear favorites - as a result, he most likely will not get into his reach.
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I should also add that my son definitely did the demonstrated interest thing well…went for a campus tour December of junior year, and then went back in August 2019 for an on campus interview with the admissions office. Message being the same: maximize the factors under your control (ED, DI, essays, finding a great fit, etc.).
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Our daughter’s gpa at a rigorous private school was in the 3.6 range. She had a 33 on the ACT (34 superscore), strong ECs and teachers who enthusiastically agreed to write recs. The GPA was her weak spot, but 11th and 12th grade fall semester showed a strong upward trend. (Also, her school treated the A- as a 3.67 and the B+ as a 3.33, so the 3.6 was still very respectable).
Based on Naviance, two of her school acceptances were reaches. The first was UT Austin OOS. She was the only student in her class who received an acceptance. Her GC was delighted - but definitely shocked.
The other reach was Barnard, which she now attends. Barnard was a reach in part because she applied there RD. Her high school had a pretty good track record of sending 1-2 students there every year, and she had a really terrific interview with her interviewer. She also spent a lot of time on her Barnard essays. Still, she was prepared for the WL or R, and instead broke into a massive smile when she learned she had been accepted. She’s a Sophomore now and really enjoying it.
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My apologies if this is an inappropriate question, but for those whose children are now attending the reach schools, it sounds like your students have been able to keep up academically? We are waiting on a few schools, but this is DD’s concern. Even if she gets in, she is concerned about the rigor of the courses being much more difficult at “reaches” than “matches.” She would like to attend graduate school, so her college GPA will be important. Thanks for any advice.
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@gcmom1 , that’s a fair question. I think, though, the answer depends on sooo many things.
My kid’s GPA probably put him at the bottom of the top half of his boarding school class where there was no weighting of grades and he had a most rigorous schedule. In his case, his high school experience-- classes where he was challenged and sometimes struggling with material, heavy workload, writing intensive, and high expectations-- prepared him extremely well for college. His GPA freshman year at college was better than in high school. So the question here is why the high school GPA is low. If it’s because a kid with aptitude is acquiring learning skills, filling in educational gaps, and generally “getting with the program” etc., no need for worry. In my kid’s case, his senior year in high school signaled that he’d finally gotten it. A little late for college apps, but not as a student! If, otoh, this is a kid who has always put in tons of time and struggles to learn, that might not be a harbinger of college success. Or if they have no interest in work!
The other thing to note is where a kid struggles. A whiz in math and physics whose GPA was dampened by FL and English may excel in college as a physics major where they don’t have to give time to anything but their strengths. If that’s the case, look at how programs are set up – distribution requirements, etc.
The other thing is how well the learning environment suits a kid. Consider schedule – Colorado College one class art a time might be perfect for a learner who has struggled to manage the tasks associated with 6 or 7 classes. A kid who needs to be engaged in class might thrive at a LAC. Or a kid who needs a little more freedom from schedule might benefit from a class where lectures are available on demand.
I think these are the kinds of things AOs are assessing when they look at transcripts, scores, recs, essays, etc that get lost when applicants are reduced to GPA and test scores. My kid did just fine at a reach college-- even got selected to present research (in a subject that wasn’t his major) at a symposium.
But no, just because a kid appears to have squeaked in doesn’t necessarily doom them in college.
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Thank you so much for such a thoughtful reply. Very glad that your son did so well. My DD is at a rigorous public high school; I hope and expect she will be reasonably well prepared for college. She’s an A/B student that has worked hard at times, but probably is not pushing herself to the full extent of her abilities. She tends to work harder when she is truly interested, like most of us.
At the end of the day, it is my DD’s decision, but we do want to guide her as best as possible, and there are just so many variables to consider, including “Reach vs. match vs. safety,” learning style (which we honestly don’t really know, given 1.5 years of online learning with COVID but probably swings more to a “hands on and flexible” approach for my DD), cost of the school, ability to get the experiences and classes needed to even be accepted into her grad programs (which she is pretty sure about, but we also recognize that could change too), and all the others (i.e. better to be in an Honors program at a match school, desire to study abroad, wishes a LLC, non-educational factors, etc.) It seems daunting right now, so your points are well taken.
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Yes-my daughter’s reach was Purdue and she miraculously was accepted. She attends a very rigorous college prep school–absolutely NO grade inflation (an 89.99 is a B). She had a paltry 25 on her ACT-no amount of test prep helped deflect poor math and science scores that dragged her down- 3.6 weighted GPA, but did have a ton of community service, outstanding recs, and interesting hooks that are different–ranked in state chess and she competes in fencing. We attribute part of it to her stellar writing skills, and attending a summer camp at Purdue that required writing for admission (and earned her a college credit). Her guidance counsellors said geographical diversity may have helped too as we are 11 hours away. I say all this to say there can always be long shot possibilities and if your child really wants a school-go for it!
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My kid is opposite. Top public Hs. 34 ACT. 10-12 AP and a DE. One B in HS.
Goes to Alabama for engineering so it’s not elite. Getting his ASS kicked. Had to withdraw from two classes over 3 years and repeat. Had many of the I’m going to fail out moments even though he has a 3.6.
It could be major. In engineering most everyone is smart. Could be a language barrier in college. Teaching style. Intimidation.,.some kids first year are afraid to seek help. Being away from home.
You also have some profs that just make a class less rigorous than another prof in the same subject.
I went to college in Az for mba. Another friend went to Wharton. The way he talked from day one his task was to find a job. It sure seemed like my education was more rigorous.
I don’t think one can know how rigorous a school is. And there are straight A HS students failing out of regional and flagship colleges every year !!
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With all the variations of how letter grades are calculated, I have tremendous sympathy for admissions officers. It’s simply chaotic. Why even do letter grades? Why not just report the numerical grade? It’s a lot easier to compare one against another.
Not even close to an issue for us. D’s college GPA is higher than her high school GPA. She’s doing extremely well.
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tsbna44 - we’ve chatted before. my kid is at bama too; sames stats as yours. Engineering. and it is HARD. he thinks college is so much harder than high school. he’s taking electrical, CS, theoretical probabilities math. . . . And, this is not at a reach school.
sorry; don’t mean to hijack the thread!
and editing to add: he was at a NONcompetitive HS; low SES, low standardized test scores. He has mentioned he studied for one test in HS: the ACT. SO - high school has so much to do with this all i think!
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Same here. Our son was extremely well-prepared for college, hit the ground running, and graduated second in his EE/CS class, but it’s a mantra over on the prep forum that almost all boarding school kids find their colleges (any college) easier than their high school.
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We were also lucky in that our school’s GC was an honest broker. When we showed him D’s list, he agreed that all the schools on the list — reaches included — were schools where D could thrive. And that’s partly because he knew our D’s school, faculty and students really well. So he had a very good handle on what a particular GPA meant in terms of predicted ability.
Also, as much as I hate the standardized tests, I do think they gave D some much needed confidence. (Same with AP tests).
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I had the same concern when my S started his (what I considered to be a high match/low reach) college. I spoke to his (excellent) HS guidance counselor about it. She basically said that admissions officers are outstanding at only accepting students who can achieve in their college so if he got in he should be able to do the work.
And for my S it turned out she was right – he worked hard, graduated with over a 3.5 GPA, and had a fantastic experience. FWIW at least for my S things got easier for him when he finished a lot of the general ed requirements and got more into classes in his major (his major played into his academic strengths).
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Thanks to you and the Auntlydia and the others for your replies. I will suggest DD make an appointment with her GC, who has provided little guidance thus far,but also has a huge student population to serve at her large HS. His one piece of advice was to narrow down her list, which was honestly probably the correct thing to do (but she didn’t!). It’s a good dilemma, but she has several choices to make!
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