At my childs High school -due to the sheer size of 1000 kids per grade- Almost ALL of the top 1-50 Nationally Ranked Universities -historically don’t let anyone in from our school without a GPA over 4.0. (similar w/ the top 40 LAC around ranking 41, 42 kids under 4.0 start getting accepted). Because of the size of the school - When someone has a 3.0 that puts them in the 50% range so there are about 500 kids with a GPA better than a 3.0 if that makes sense.
Given that – If your child had under a 4.0 GPA - can you share what their “reach” school was? and the circumstances of the school they came from? And why you think they were accepted?
Is it safe to assume that if 150 kids applied to xyz school last year & no one with under a 4.0 GPA got in— that my child should not apply. Its not a reach- its out of reach then?
I’m going to throw it on its head and ask why does anyone need a reach school? There’s no guarantee that a more selective school will be a good fit. In fact, there are many highly ranked institutions that I’d never encourage a student to attend. They have giant lectures and heavy reliance on TAs. With a plethora of wonderful, less selective schools, why not focus more on institutions that are a good fit?
Why does the child want to go to those particular schools? People should be choosing schools that are good fits for them. If a kid can show why they want a particular school beyond rankings, they may have a better chance of admission. Every college is different in what they are looking for.
Just to get you the answer, how does one define a reach? I read a lot of people’s profiles on here who think something is a reach and it’s really a match or safety or some think it’s a match or safety and it’s really a reach.
If you want to know if a school has accepted anyone 3.5-3.9 and I’m sure all have, go to their Common Data Set and you can see their grade distribution put into percentages.
While I would agree with eyemgh on advising most students to not attend a reach school, I would tell you that super talented kids are a good fit for many. Being around like minded/talented students is probably the most important aspect of picking a university, not necessarily having a few more or a few less students in a particular lecture.
I think it’s about setting expectations too. Nothing wrong with applying to reach schools if the assumption is it’s unlikely. I think we’ve all been wow’d in both directions on CC with surprising rejections and acceptances. Only way to know is to try, but go in with the knowledge the common data set shows.
I think to answer your question in your last sentence, yes, it sounds like it is very unlikely he will get in. Whether to still apply depends on whether you want to pay the fee, he wants to put the effort into the application, and setting expectations.
My son did not get into his reaches (Georgetown…we recategorized that as ‘dream’ rather than ‘reach’ but he still gave it a try…and William and Mary). His acceptances landed right where we thought they would from GPA and test scores on the niche graph (our school does not have Naviance and does not rank). 3.7 GPA, small but excellent public high school. He is very happy at his chosen college which was one of several match schools that he was accepted to and would have been happy with.
The problem with - if no one under a 4.0 got in, that means they’re using a weighted. This is the issue with the CDS - it’s not apples to apples in that regard.
If 100% had a weighted 4.0 and your son’s weighted 4.0 is under, he’s not going to get in. But you have 20 Common App spots - and nothing wrong with using them.
I will answer the question. My kid asked to do a last application to Davidson. Her GPA was in the range posted in the subject. Her SAT scores were not really in a good spot for this school.
She applied, but was not accepted.
But really, her top three choices had already accepted her and none were reaches.
I’m not sure I can answer all your questions, but here is my son’s story (in part). DS had a college advisor at his school but also a private college advisor (recommended by a friend–also he was a scholarship student there.) This friend raved about this office and they did help my son a lot. When it came down to the ED wire my son decided to apply Early Decision to Middlebury. He knew it was a reach, but possible. After he changed his application from RD to ED, the advisor from the private counselling office contacted him. He said absolutely it was a bad idea, a very big reach for him, and even said it was a waste of an ED. The owner of the company then contacted my son with an even stronger reaction. The next day he contacted the Middlebury admissions office and asked to switch back to RD. I then spoke to his advisor at his school and told him what was going on. He disagreed with the other people, was angry with them, and then said if my son still wanted to apply ED to Middlebury it would probably be okay. I would’ve thought the whole thing made him look bad. At any rate, he switched back again to ED. Lo and behold, he was accepted.
So, some of his stats:
-He goes to a fairly small private school.
-Applied test optional.
-As of last year, his gpa was 3.95.
-This year (first trimester) he had a 4.0 unweighted, taking more difficult classes.
-No interview.
So, what got him in? I’m not sure. I think the trajectory of his grades helped. I think overall academically he has challenged himself more and has improved each year. Essay I believe was good. I think he showed a strong focus, which showed in his summer program, school award, volunteer work.
I think any use of GPA is unhelpful to a degree since there are 142 variations of how high schools calculate GPA. At our high school, you can get an 89.5 in a class and it’s a 4.0. A 100 is also a 4.0. I was looking at our Purdue acceptances and 7 boys got in with 30-35 on the ACT but their GPA was 3.98-4.0. I consider a bad GPA at about 3.8.
I wish that I could be helpful but our school only reports weighted GPA so everyone who was admitted to T20 or T50 schools had GPAs over 4.2 or so. There are also many with similar GPAs who did not get into those schools. I am absolutely sure that their unweighted GPAs were not 4.0 since an A in honors and AP classes in our high school is difficult and an A- is a 3.7. It is still unclear to me if colleges recalculate GPA and convert A- and A to a 4 and all B-, B, and B+ to a 3, so all this discussion is kinda of moot.
Our son’s boarding school (at the time) required each senior to apply to no more than ten colleges: three reaches, three matches, three likelies, and the student’s state flagship. (The “rule” was loosened where there were significant financial or other constraints.) The lists were highly curated for success based on the high school’s detailed knowledge of each student and their goals, the overall strength of the senior applicant pool, and its relationships with the various colleges. Also, the school’s Naviance database was perfectly maintained. Going way back, every student’s data and results were in there, so the GCs could reference accurate college decision history along with their knowledge of each applicant’s peer competition for any given college that round. The process was anything but random, and our son’s GC was refreshingly blunt with each of her charges and their parents regarding expectations.
I’ve posted our son’s story many times over the years here. After Army and Navy, he was interested in strong civilian engineering programs and was stat-competitive for any of them, though not a 4.0 student. His GC told him he didn’t have a shot at the three or four offers that would come from MIT because she knew his competition (and so did he). If he wanted to apply to MIT, he could, but he would not get the same support, so the application would be a waste. For the service academies, other than providing transcripts and LORs, the school could not add much value or insight as the nomination process is complex and decided at the district level, so each was considered a reach. In the end, his GC’s civilian college predictions were spot on. While waiting for appointment decisions, he was accepted to the honors program at Georgia Tech, the CS programs at Michigan and UIUC, and the Barrett honors college at ASU (state flagship). Eventually, he received appointments to both USMA and USNA. Once he committed to USMA, his high school required him to withdraw his outstanding applications as a courtesy to classmates who were still awaiting decisions, so he never got decisions from the remaining four but didn’t care as USM/NA were his top two choices.
From our window in Naviance his year, we could see that top colleges historically admitted mostly top students from his high school, but did not require a 4.0 as very few students in the boarding school pools earn that very rare GPA. Students who earn a 3.7 and up do very well with selective colleges, and all of them end up matched to fine institutions. His school was about a stellar high school education, not any particular college result, and was very good at helping its parents and students lose their college myopia and embrace the importance of finding the right fit for each student’s goals.
I guess my point is that the rigor of the high school matters. Students are evaluated against their peers within the context of that rigor. A 4.0 from a school where that GPA is common means something different than a 4.0 from a school where it’s rare. Colleges know the difference and have different expectations for applicants from those different pools.
If you can afford the application fee, it’s worth applying if it’s a school your child would want to attend. My son has a reach school that he loves so I told him to go for it. The school only offers RD so we won’t know until March. But he’s been accepted to all his EA schools and is really excited about his options even if he doesn’t get into his reach. I think it’s important they have options that they would be happy to attend.
From my observations, students with g.p.a.s in that range have a better chance at private reach schools if they have outstanding/rare extracurriculars, great essays, and high test scores to submit.
Holistic review is less likely at large highly competitive state schools, where grades/rank relative to other applicants from the same high school are often used to make initial cuts. This applies to out-of-state applicants especially. The rest of the application may never be read.
There will be plenty of kids accepted to HYPS with 3.9. The same will not necessarily be true for students who applied with 3.5, though there are always exceptions. Without context, these numbers don’t mean a lot.
I think it is still worth applying to a reach if a student’s GPA hovers slightly below former admittees (more 3.9 than 3.5), if you think the student also offers something else unique/special: stronger ECs than other candidates, a unique background, award, or talent, unusually strong essays, belonging to some underrepresented group for that school/major, etc. Sometimes just being male can be an advantage at a school that thinks it has a poor gender balance, for example.
I don’t think the highest GPA candidate always wins out if another applicant comes across as a better fit for whatever reason or rounds out the class better.
Finally, I don’t think we know how the pandemic has affected GPAs across the board nor how schools are going to analyze them.
So if you are sorta in the ballpark, I would still apply, knowing it is a long shot.
I have no personal experience (yet), but am basing my response on anecdotes shared in Jeffrey Selingo’s book Who Gets In And Why.
