<p>If so, why do you believe they got in?</p>
<p>Thank heavens NO! (Because I was pretty convinced then, and am very convinced now that the total quality of education SHE might have received - given her interests and passions - wouldn't have been as good.)</p>
<p>Mild reach. Reasons:</p>
<p>a) Personality was a match for the school.</p>
<p>b) Strong interest demonstrated.</p>
<p>c) Strong class rank, transcript, and recommendations.</p>
<p>d) Tightly constructed application highlighting an extra-curricular activity of particular interest to the school.</p>
<p>Got into a reach. Reasons:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Very strong stats</p></li>
<li><p>Good, though not super, EC achievements in both science and music</p></li>
<li><p>They may have wanted a bassoon player</p></li>
<li><p>Luck of the draw - i.e. they saw something they liked that made her stand out from the all other kids with strong stats. What is was is hard to know unless it was the bassoon thing.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>Does anyone really know what "reach" means? 25% of the students at every Ivy League school today have SATs lower than 1380, and in many of them, the percentage is much higher than that. Is it simply a matter of their having to reject lots of candidates who could thrive perfectly well there? Or does reach simply mean having to compete without the advantage of legacy, big money, major athletic status, desired URM status, or (in that rare year when it is essential, the bassoon?)</p>
<p>In the case of my d., I don't believe any school was a "reach" - it was more a matter of whether the school was willing to take a chance on a rather more than usually unusual candidate, with all that entails (in her case, a lot.)</p>
<p>I should have defined what I meant, it's along the lines on what Mini is saying. Do highly selective colleges take chances? Do kids with statistics slightly below their averages get in because of things like extensive community service and being highly respected as a leader at school?</p>
<p>In my mind, a "reach" generally means you would be in the lower 25% (or even lower) of the class in terms of test scores and gpa. I have often wondered why a student would be so anxious to put himself in that situation. Why go to a school where everyone around you is smarter than you are? If you are in the top 5% of your HS class wouldn't you at least want to be in the middle of your college class? I'm sure some of the athletes are genuine scholars as well, but if you are the real deal dumb jock wouldn't you feel out of place at Harvard?</p>
<p>I went to harvard from a background of poverty with a 1000 SAT. I graduated with a 3.6 and was near the top of my class at Yale Law School. It's well established that numbers often don't tell the story. My fear however, is that colleges with today's ranking pressure can't afford to make many exceptions that would make sense and still maintain their rankings.</p>
<p>I think that places like Harvard still take chances, because this strategy has yielded good results. You are a perfect example of that. The 1000 SAT was a reflection of the opportunities you had (or did not have) rather than of your potential. It's a good thing that Harvard recognized it. And with the new financial initiative, Harvard has committed itself to continuing to take chances. Highly selective schools like Amherst that have generous financial aid packages have the same risk-taking strategy. It has not hurt Amherst's reputation or rankings.</p>
<br>
<blockquote> <p>In my mind, a "reach" generally means you would be in the lower 25% (or even lower) of the class in terms of test scores and gpa. </p> </blockquote>
<br>
<p>That is not even close to the definition I had in mind.</p>
<p>SYPSM are reaches for everybody, regardless of grades/scores.</p>
<br>
<blockquote> <p>SYPSM are reaches for everybody, regardless of grades/scores.<<</p> </blockquote>
<br>
<p>This is more the definition I had in mind. Unless you are a Kennedy, a Bush, or a Frist, nobody can say they are a match for HYP simply because the odds of acceptance are so low.</p>
<p>I think I am on record on this discussion forum (as I know I am on other discussion forums) in saying that the most prestigious and desired colleges in the United States have admissions policies such that "everyone has to have a plan B." But that's not quite the same as saying that those schools are a "reach" for all their applicants. There are occasional, extraordinarily capable and exceptionally well-prepared young people who can, legitimately, at least call [insert name of famous, hard-to-get-into school here] a match/reach, and maybe even a match. I know of a girl, whose mother emailed me earlier this week on a different subject, who is attending one of those schools this year after being accepted at ALL of the colleges to which she applied, which were all top colleges for the field she is most eager to pursue. She had national-level ECs, fine board scores, and (to the best of my knowledge) good grades and relevant work experience and previous college-level credits, so she was simply an outstanding candidate for admission last year. I should be so lucky for any of my children to be that well prepared--maybe they aren't as "naturally" smart as she is--but I'm trying my best to prepare reasonably (as a homeschooling parent) for my children to apply where they want to apply, when the time comes. Yes, we will have a plan B (and a plan C). No one can count on admission in such schools as a sure thing, but for some applicants the probability of acceptance is very high indeed.</p>
<p>I don't know if I am using the same definition of <em>reach</em> as meant by the OP, but my son was admitted to several schools that we thought because of the low acceptance rate and his average scores for the accepted student pool that he would not make the cut. </p>
<ol>
<li>Geographic Diversity</li>
<li>Being male where more females apply and the school wants to be close to 50-50.</li>
<li>Being the only applicant from his school, and many times region.</li>
</ol>
<p>I thought my son's chance of getting into his ED choice was 50/50. Whether I should call that a reach or a big reach I couldn't say; what was evident to me was that he had weak points in his whole profile in places that other applicants may have been stronger. His weaknesses -- as I saw them -- were SATs in the middle range for the school, not in top 10% (although school didn't officially rank so this was not directly addressed), only two years of two languages instead of depth in one, a fair sprinkling of B's and even one C, no math or science senior year. He is also a white, upper middle class male, not an athlete, so no obvious hooks. In short, none of these points would have kept him out per se, but cumulatively they led me to believe that his chance was 50/50, especially considering that the overall acceptance rate at his #1 choice was around 20% the previous year.</p>
<p>What pushed him over the top -- again pure speculation:
1. ED application and demonstrated interest
2. Unique life experience, intense extra-curriculars
3. Artistic talent and focus in an academic area in which the college excels
4. Strong essays and recommendations
5. Cohesive and focused application, including examples of art and writing</p>
<p>"Do highly selective colleges take chances? Do kids with statistics slightly below their averages get in because of things like extensive community service and being highly respected as a leader at school?"</p>
<p>Yes, they do take chances. If you read "The Gatekeepers", Wesleyan was perfectly happy to take some BIG chances with some of their minority applicants. Some worked out, some did not. But I'm guessing that the number of spots we're talking about are relatively small (for all of the boo-hooing that goes on about AA).</p>
<p>Harvard is famous for taking chances with applicants, like Henry Kissinger. Also, one person in my D's dorm is rumored to be a high school drop out and is going to Harvard because it is the only school which accepted him. [He is 3 or 4 years older than the rest of the kids. After dropping out of high school, he formed a software company and sold it. Doesn't need financial aid. . .]</p>
<p>I think my S at a reach. He decided as a junior to apply, and got applications in Dec 31. Schools that needed interviews fit him in the week before. He wasn't 'prepared' the way Sooz's D and Marite's S were to apply, but he gave it his best shot. This school gave him a chance, and it seems like that proverbial fit. He is as involved with ECs as he was in HS</p>
<p>I think my son got into a big reach for him. His grades and transcripts were fine but not outstanding. He had some Bs (but no Cs), was in the top 6-7% but not 1-2% of his large school. He had the most difficult coarseload but so does everyone these days.
I think he got in because of:
1) Being male, being an asian-indian. The male-female ratio is still skewed a little bit towards females although not much at his school (47-53).
2) Strong interest in something demonstrated through his essay which I thought was well-written. His advisor still recalls his essay and hooks him up with campus events related to the interest he has expressed.
3) Demonstration of fit with the college through his 'Why college x' essay.
4) A good EC and writing sample.</p>
<p>I would also say (hope not redundantly) that he did demonstrate that he could do the work through his application. He is a mature kid and has a good personality and good leadership skills (and I hope this is not just a mom speaking) and that came through in his application as well.</p>
<p>Kirmum:</p>
<p>Let me ask you a simple question, how many kids with 1000 SAT should a school invest. Remember that most of the kids who get rejected at elite school can work but simply the school does not enough space. So they have made some critrion. Unfortunately whatever they do, we all will have problems one way or another way. I think present system is okay as schol did not find any better critrion. My question to you is since you are a very successful lawyer, should school take a chance on a rich kid if he happens to be with SAT 1000 and leave a poor kid with lower SAT. Personally I think a kid coming from wealthy background be it URM or non URM should be held to a higher standard in selction critrion.</p>
<p>Since yo do not mention that were you URM or a non URM. But I am sure that some school will keep taking chance on some kids. BUt they can not select a class of 100% 1600 SAT or 100% asian or 100% URM or 100% poor or even 100% rich. Thus, a compromise will be there. Personally I think a school paying more fin aid is better than where you have to dole money. But I am sure there are people who disagree with me. And nothing wrong with their opinion.</p>