<p>OK, so now we are talking about graduate programs?? I am talking about undergraduate degrees. Even though Harvard extension students can petition to take regular classes at Harvard that is not the same as GS students who take regular Columbia classes full time.</p>
<p>Extension undergraduate program also says the same thing.</p>
<p>GS students also need approval from CC to take Core courses such as Lit. Hum or Contemp Civ. or University Writing. Looks like Harvard extension students need a little more steps to take courses at Harvard College than GS students do at CC.</p>
<p>There's a difference between a degree being "real" and "the same"...in the case of Columbia, CC students earn CC degrees and SEAS students SEAS degrees...leaving GS students with their own. Yes, it is a Columbia undergraduate degree, yes it is "real", no, it is not the exact same degree as other Columbia undergraduates earn.</p>
<p>Why do you care YH?</p>
<p>What does it matter to you if the degree from Harvard Ext is similar to one from GS? Do you go to either school? If you go to Ext, do you feel inferior in any way and now you're trying to justify the reason for going to Ext? Where do you go to school, if you do at all?</p>
<p>YH, out of all the courses Columbia offers, only 3 do you have to get approval for specific sections. Never mind the fact that those 3 courses have an equivalent that GS students sign up for. Wow, 3 courses, 'you don't take the same classes!', 'your degree is inferior!'.</p>
<p>In Harvard, you have to get permission to take a max of 2 courses per semester from HC. In GS, if I wanted, I could take all morning classes that begin with the letter V without applying to anything or speaking a word to anyone.</p>
<p>A friend graduated from GS and she has access to the alumni network of CU. She also got a job offer from a company that went to Columbia to recruit, so how did she not have access to career/job resources?</p>
<p>Do Ext students have access to Harvard dorms? If I was a GS student (probably around 29 years old), why would I want to live in a dorm with 18 year olds? Columbia does offer university apartments to GS students that are much cheaper than regular Manhattan apartments. How do I know this? Because I know several people that have some of these apartments. Oh yeah, you do need to be a full-time Columbia student to have access to these apartments.</p>
<p>Do you know why there's Gen Chem offered at 6pm? I'll let you think about it. It's called Postbaccalaureate Premedical program. What does 'post-bac' mean? It means 'after your bachelors'. After you get your bachelors degree, what do most people do? They work, they get jobs. Still following? Do I have to lead you the rest of the way? If you have a full-time job, how are you going to take a class at 11am? Of course, I have the option of taking the 11am class if I wanted.</p>
<p>So let's see, a GS student can take every single course a CC student takes (except 3) and graduate in 4 years. Can an Ext student say the same? </p>
<p>Are GS and CC degrees the 'same'? No, they're not identical. Do both sets of students take the same courses, do the same amount of work and participate in the same classes? Yes, they do. So the difference would lie only on the label on the diploma.</p>
<p>That was exactly my point TallTale. Thank you! In any case I would also like to know what school Yellow_hair attends. When I looked at the Harvard extension program compared to the GS program it did not look similiar at all.</p>
<p>I think that's a partially superficial evaluation, Tall. Obviously CC/SEAS students have different college experiences than GS students...they don't emerge the same, necessarily. College shapes one's character as much as it shapes one's intellect; the degree to which Columbia has an effect on GS students is necessarily more minimal than that on CC/SEAS students. The common bonds among GS students and between them and CC/SEAS students are fewer. So yes, if one goes to GS one will earn a legitimate Columbia degree with a legitimate Columbia education behind it. But will one be a Columbian? Possibly, but probably to a lesser extent. That may matter to some people who are looking for the experience of college as much as the accreditation of a degree.</p>
<p>What doesn't matter is whether, to a prospective applicant qualified for GS, CC and SEAS are "better"...that prospective, qualified applicant would not be allowed to apply to either anyway.</p>
<p>Everyone on this thread is obviously very passionate about their individual programs. IMO, both programs have distinctive way to serve and educate their non-traditional students. Sure, we could discuss all the fine points for as long as we like. But, let's not forget, both programs share in perhaps the most important aspect, i.e. a long list of successful alums who are definitely worthy of their respective Ivy League degrees.</p>
<p>What does it mean to be a Columbian? As if someone could actually quantify something like that. I think everyone that goes to Columbia is a Columbian and if it's something different than that, then I think it's fair to say that some students entering just after high school do not emerge as Columbians.</p>
<p>You're right; I should not have said they are "lesser" Columbians, but qualitatively different ones. What is a school that produces factionized student bodies with fragmented experiences? It is surely not the same across the board.</p>
<p>Yale has Eli Whitney program and Brown has RUE program. both are for non-traditional undergraduate students.</p>
<p>Eli Whitney student take exactly same couses as the Yale College students do and exactly same degree requirements. They even receive degree from Yale College. I say Eli Whitney programs are truly fully integrated program with the tranditional undergraduate program, Yale College. EW degree is same as Yale College degree</p>
<p>Can Columbia GS do the same thing ? Absolutely Not. </p>
<p>Brown's RUE student also take exactly same courses that Brown's traditional undergraduate students take AND receive a bachelor's degree from Brown's traditional undergraduate program. </p>
<p>Brown's RUE and Yale's Eli WHitney programs for non-traditional students are fully integrated with their traditional undergraduate program. </p>
<p>Columbia GS students receive degree from a school specifically designed for non-traditional students. So do the Harvard Extension students. </p>
<p>GS requirement is not the same as CC degree requrements. They are similar but not the same. Contem Civ I-II, Lit Hum I-II, Art & Music Hum, Physical Ed courses are not required for GS. With special permision, GS students can take these courses and claim that they have completed same course requrements as CC cirriculum. </p>
<p>Harvard Extension studnets can do the same thing. Since Extension student can take upto 2 courses per term at Harvard College, they can graduate with exactly same list of courses as Harvard College students if they take 2 HC courses every term for 8 years. and claim that they have completed same list of courses as the Harvard College requirements. </p>
<p>You can claim that Columbia GS ( or UPenn GS) is more intergrated than HE but both programs are NOT, unlike Yale & Brown, fully integrated with its traditional undergraduate program. The degree of intergration is different for Columbia GS, UPenn GS, Harvard Ex but they are same type of schoo.</p>
<p>Students in these three program can graduate with same list of courses as its traditional undergraduate degree program but they all receive degree from
a school specially designed for non-traditional undergraduates.</p>
<p>Princeton has similar program for non-traditional students but no degree is conferred.</p>
<p>In summary, there are three types of non-traditional Ivy League program.</p>
<p>Fully integrated :: Yale & Brown</p>
<p>Partially Integrated :: Harvard Extension, UPenn GS, Columbia GS </p>
<p>Non-degree : Princeton Cornell</p>
<p>Clearly you are choosing to ignore my post so lets try this again...</p>
<p>This is straight from the Columbia website:</p>
<p>"GS is the finest liberal arts college in the country created specifically for students with nontraditional backgrounds who seek a traditional education at an Ivy League university. What makes GS unique is that GS undergraduates are fully mainstreamed into the Columbia undergraduate program. They take the same courses, with the same faculty, and earn the same degree as all other Columbia undergraduates."</p>
<p>From Harvard's website:</p>
<p>"How are Extension School degree programs different from traditional Harvard degree programs?</p>
<p>Extension School degree programs are designed for the adult student offering flexibility and value. Courses are held at night, and students have the option to attend full or part time. Admission is based heavily on the student’s perfomance in three or four designated Harvard Extension School courses taken before application. Although designed for the nontraditional student, courses are rigorous. Sixty percent of Harvard Extension School instructors are Harvard University affiliates (professors, administrators, or teaching fellows)."</p>
<p>So it appears that the websites for both Harvard and Columbia disagree with your posts. Also HE students can petition to take a MAXIMUM 2 classes per semester in the traditional college. Columbia GS students take their enitre curriculum besides maybe one class with cc and seas students. There are only three classes in Columbia that GS students need to petition to get in. Harvard extension on the other hand can only petition to be in a couple traditional classes total. A HE student can not take their entire curriculum in the traditional Harvard classes. Now LOL what part of that is hardest to understand?</p>
<p>"earn the same degree as all other Columbia undergraduates"</p>
<p>THis is clearly WRONG statement. GS students receive degree from GS, CC students receive degree from CC, SEAS students from SEAS.</p>
<p>CC degree is different from SEAS degree. They are not the same.
GS degree is different from CC or SEAS. </p>
<p>Yale's Eli Whitney students earn the same degree as all other Yale Undergraduates.<br>
Brown's RUE students earn the same degree as all other Brown Unvergraduates.</p>
<p>HOWEVER, Columbia GS do NOT earn the <strong>SAME</strong>* degree as all other Columbia undergraduates... Columbia GS earn GS degree which is different from CC degree</p>
<p>Yellow Hair, again you are confused about the GS Core. GS students must take Art and Music Hum - these courses are not optional. GS students may also take Lit Hum and CC and enroll in either the GS sections or CC sections (so long as there's space, and from what I've seen, one can find a space during the add/drop period). University Writing is the only class that is segregated (unless GS students take the GS sections of Lit Hum and CC). All other classes are integrated. So, if you're argument is that GS isn't integrated because of three classes, well, then I think you have a weak argument, considering that the coursework for these three core classes are identical to the CC versions and that in the course of getting a bachelor's degree, three GS-specific courses are really not enough to consider a GS education different.</p>
<p>Take two students: a GS student and a CC student, both are political science majors. If the GS student decides to follow the CC core (which many do), taking GS Lit Hum, CC, and University Writing and both students end up taking the same upper division courses, their two degrees are virtually identical. GS versions of Lit Hum, CC, and UW are not dumbed-down. So, aside from dorm life (and from what I've heard the dorms are really all that spectacular, not to mention, most GS students who are older have no interest in hanging out in the dorms), GS students and CC students can have academically identical experiences.</p>
<p>MDX49, I am just reposting what Columbia states on their website so I guess you are disagreeing with Columbia. You are right though to some extent because there are differences on the actual diploma. The GS diploma is in english and says general studies so yes they are different in that way.</p>
<p>I don't think I said GS is not integrated because of 3 courses..</p>
<p>The following link shows the list of GS core</p>
<p>Art Hum, Music Hum, LIt Hum ( two course), Contemp Civ (2 Course) are all optional. (You can take Asian Humanity instead of Art Hum, Music Hum.)
PHysical Education is not required. and University Writing is in different section.</p>
<p>You can get GS degree without taking all of CC core curriculum courses. However, GS students can also take CC core courses with permission from CC and claim that they had similar academic experience. </p>
<p>Can Harvard Extension (or Upenn GS) students do the same thing? Absolutely.</p>
<p>Take two students: Harvard Extension and Harvard College both history major. If H Extension student take 2 Harvard College courses every term for 8 years ( or shorter if he/she take summer school course) then Harvard Extension degree and Harvard College degree is virtually identical. </p>
<p>"So, aside from dorm life (and from what I've heard the dorms are really all that spectacular, not to mention, most Harvard Extension students who are older have no interest in hanging out in the dorms), Harvard Extension students and Harvard College students can have academically identical experiences." In this case, the only difference is the school name that appears on the diploma.</p>
<p>GS students earn degree from School of General Studies, non residential school specifically designed for non-tradition students, not from CC/SEAS, residential school designed for traditional students. </p>
<p>Columbia GS is not like Yale Eli Whitney or Brown RUE, where non-traditional students earn degree from the same college. (eg Yale College). I say Yale's and Brown's non-traditional programs are trully and fully integrated and their students earn the <strong>same</strong> degree. </p>
<p>Columbia GS is partial integrated and so are Harvard Extension and UPenn GS.
Non-traditional students in these three school get their degree from a undergraduate school specially created for non-traditional undergraduates. Students in these three school can take courses offered from their traditional undergradute program. ( eg Columbia GS student can take Lit Hum from CC instead of Lit Hum from GS OR Harvard Extension student can take General CHem from Harvard College instead of General Chem from Extension school ) Students in these three school can also design their curriculum so that they take same list of courses as their tratitional undergraduate progrm. However, at the end, unlike Yale or Browon, they do not receive degree from their traditional undergraduate division. </p>
<p>SO there there are three types of Non-traditional undergraduate program in Ivy League school</p>
<p>Fully Integrated :: Yale & Brown</p>
<p>Partially Integrated :: Harvard, Columbia, UPenn
You can argue that one of these three is more integrated than the other)</p>
<p>Non-degree :: Princeton, Cornell...</p>
<p>GS students do not need permission to register in cc classes (except for three).</p>
<p>" If H Extension student take 2 Harvard College courses every term for 8 years"</p>
<p>So it would take HE students 8 years to accomplish what a GS student would accomplish in half the time.</p>
<p>I go back to my quote:
"What makes GS unique is that GS undergraduates are fully mainstreamed into the Columbia undergraduate program. They take the same courses, with the same faculty, and earn the same degree as all other Columbia undergraduates."</p>
<p>So GS students are not partially integrated. Also only 60% of HE professors actually are from Harvard. HE classes are all at night and GS classes are during the day or at night.</p>
<p>Again from Harvard: </p>
<p>"Courses are held at night, and students have the option to attend full or part time. Admission is based heavily on the student’s perfomance in three or four designated Harvard Extension School courses taken before application. Although designed for the nontraditional student, courses are rigorous. Sixty percent of Harvard Extension School instructors are Harvard University affiliates (professors, administrators, or teaching fellows)."</p>
<p>Yellowhair, are there any facts you have from either school that can back up anything you are saying??</p>
<p>"GS students do not need permission to register in cc classes (""except"" for three)."</p>
<p>So you are admitting that GS students DO need permission to take CC course. Actually they need permission for more than 3 courses...</p>
<p>" They take the same courses, with the same faculty, and earn the same degree as all other Columbia undergraduates."</p>
<p>With permission from CC, GS can take the same courese and so do Harvard Extension students. and earn the same degree ? same as what degree ?</p>
<p>"GS undergraduates are fully mainstreamed into the Columbia undergraduate program."</p>
<p>Not necessarily fully mainstreamed in to the CC or SEAS program. Maybe GS is fully mainstreamed into Columbia School of Nursing undergraduate program or Barnard College program...?</p>
<p>"earn the same degree as all other Columbia undergraduates."
Mayby GS degree is same as School of Nursing undergrduate degree..??</p>
<p>"So you are admitting that GS students DO need permission to take CC course. Actually they need permission for more than 3 courses..."</p>
<p>As I have been saying all along they need permission to take 3 courses the rest of the cc classes they do not need permission to register for. In fact they could be taking a full load of cc courses and never ask for permission. I am not sure why this is so difficult...</p>
<p>"With permission from CC, GS can take the same courese and so do Harvard Extension students."</p>
<p>The above statement is incorrect. HE students must petition to take ANY class at regular Harvard undergrad. GS students must only petition if they want to take one of the three classes mentioned previously otherwise the rest of their classes are taken with cc students. Again if you do not see the difference...</p>
<p>"Maybe GS is fully mainstreamed into Columbia School of Nursing undergraduate program or Barnard College program...?"</p>
<p>I guessed you missed the part where they said all undergraduates. Not surprising :)</p>
<p>"and earn the same degree ? same as what degree ?"</p>
<p>They all earn a Columbia degree.</p>
<p>"Mayby GS degree is same as School of Nursing undergrduate degree..??"
This answers your question:
"earn the same degree as all other Columbia undergraduates."
Notice the word all.</p>
<p>I am encouraged that you are actually reading other peoples posts now. Like I mentioned before it is not really me you are disagreeing with but rather Harvard and Columbia. :)</p>
<p>Also what is your interest in this? I am a potential transfer so I had to look up this information anyway.</p>
<p>Yellow_Hair, what the hell is the point to your continued factually incorrect posts? Did GS reject you or something? I'd really like to know why you're bothering with this thread.</p>
<p>Also, I'm a GS student in his senior year the university. I'd be happy to answer any questions, but please keep them to the thread. I'm not great with private messages.</p>