3rd son is looking into Pittsburgh Technical Institute (2 years Associates) vs a Penn State, or Geneva College 4 yr Bachelors degree in Electronics Technology or Engineering… just weighing the Pros and cons … if anyone has advice …
First, PTI is a for profit college so I would immediately be wary of it. Second, you end up as a technician, not an engineer. I’d want to see the hiring results (% hired and average salary) for graduates. Penn State or even one of the smaller state schools will probably give you a better bang for your dollar.
A 4 year degree will make a HUGE difference in salary, promotion potential, etc.
Wouldn’t waste money on a “for profit” school anyway.
4 year college degree is a much better credential. And yes, you need to be careful of for-profit schools (some are OK but many are not).
Nearly my entire family works or has worked in the high-tech industry. There is probably nothing more a killer to income, promotions or even being hired than lacking at least a 4 year degree.
If he wants to start with a two year degree, look into programs at Community College of Beaver County or CCAC. Their associate degrees are set up to transfer to four year schools and they have articulation agreements with many local and/or state schools.
Thank you all very much… I never heard anyone use the term " a FOR PROFIT" School… how does one tell if it’s considered this ? I noticed their prices are AS HIGH as a 4 year college for a year… and they also have no Food plan there… Someone mentioned to my husband about a ETT degree? …(2 year associates- & I’m sure those letters are not right) he can’t remember what he said exactly …
But this is of far less worth than getting a 4 yr (with other Letters / accreditation ??) he can’t remember the letters used… maybe someone here knows exactly what he was talking about… this son seems to have the highest grades of all our kids. I’d hate to see him, of all of them reduce himself to a 2 yr degree… if he can just as easily go to a 4 yr college…
Geneva was VERY affordable to 2nd son - (due to getting merit aid and his grades) …we’ll probably get very similar aid for this son (they are a year apart)… will be 2 in college next fall…
Any more advice… please give me the hard facts… this forum REALLY HELPED me/us in a pinch last month to get 2nd son out of a college we could not realistically afford…
Google around a little–there’s a TON of evidence that for-profit colleges are really just parasites on the federal Pell Grant and student loan systems. Really unconscionable. Avoid like the plague.
A friend in the biz once told me that there is no such thing as an Associate’s degree - it is just 2 years of college.
All my kids got it. Yes, they spent first 2 years of college to obtain an associate degree.
^^
What @snarlatron 's friend meant, is that businesses don’t care about AA degrees. To them, it’s just two years of college.
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Geneva was VERY affordable to 2nd son - (due to getting merit aid and his grades) ...we'll probably get very similar aid for this son (they are a year apart).. will be 2 in college next fall...
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What is son #3’s grades and test scores? He can probably go to Geneva for the same or less cost, but if his scores are high enough, he can go elsewhere for the same or less cost.
How much are you spending on son #2’s school each year?
None of the publics schools are “for profit” and many privates aren’t either. Since you all are confused, maybe just list the schools that are being considered and we’ll tell you “yes” or “no”.
And if you provide stats and home state (assuming it’s NY), we’ll help with more schools.
If your son has the grades to get into Penn State Engineering, have him apply NOW (priority deadline is November 30 for the WHOLE application to be complete, including transcripts and scores received). He should write the “personal statement”. If neither you nor your spouse went to college, he should indicate so. If his high school is lower-performing, with few students going on to 4-year universities, he should mention it and how his path differs from the “typical” student at his school. Erie is the “alternate” campus of choice for strong engineering applicants.
“Normal” colleges are “for education”. Their #1 goal is to educate students. “For Profit” colleges are generally sham programs that masquerade as official with official-sounding names (so that only people “in the know” realize it “sounds like” the legit degree but isn’t!), but right in their name you see their goal is to make money off of you, not educate. MANY have actually been indicted for fraud and many more are under review. They don’t care about quality of courses or if you graduate. They push loans on their students until they’ve reached the limit and leave them stranded. They have both the lowest graduation rates AND the highest default rate on their megaloans. Their “counselors” are there to push sales - think aggressive car dealers pushing lemons on unsuspecting clients. To top it off, most employers consider that a “for profit” degree is not worth more than a HS diploma.
Penn State is on the other hand of the spectrum. #1 for recruiting nationally. Great career fairs, career center, alumni network. A Penn State Engineering degree will command respect not just in PA but also OH, VA, MD, NYS, DE, DC, and most of the East Coast.
Geneva is better than for profit, but isn’t in the same league as Penn State, Pitt, and Temple. It’s a solid option but for a strong student interested in engineering, there must be better options. Adults here will help you find them if you wish.
What are your son’s stats (GPA, test scores, any AP taken)?
What’s your budget? Do you know your EFC?
With these parameters, people here can chime in and give you lots of suggestions.
ok…you’re a PA resident.
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We can cover this years EFC for 2nd son... but next year.. NO WAY ! There will be 2 sons in college.. our family makes $65,000 a year.. we have 5 kids at home... having to pay $10,000 for 2nd son THIS YEAR out of our pocket.. so we assume next year will be that TIMES 2 (plus more given rates go up & up & up) ...
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Once we know S3’s stats, we can better suggest schools.
Where does S2 go to school? Do they meet need? Many meet-need schools will halve the EFC (ie., they’d expect you to contribute 5K per child). However if the school doesn’t meet need and chooses not to adjust your contribution, :s. Contact financial aid office at S2’s college and ask what their policy will be, specifying S2 is an honors student there and that you won’t be able to pay for the same costs next year due to S3 going to college too.
We really need to know S3’s stats, but 65K for 7 = you get fee waivers from all universities (either fill out the NACAC fee waiver form and give it to guidance counselor, or have the GC check the “fee waiver” box on the CommonApp). You should get fee waivers from college boards so that your son can take the SAT twice and take Subject tests for free (up to 3 in one sitting, maximum 2 sittings. Recommended: 2 tests the first time, second time retake the lowest score and take another one.) Same thing for the ACT if he or his siblings care to take it.
With that income, your son would get an automatic full ride (free college) at Harvard, Yale, Princeton, MIT, etc. I think Williams, Pomona, Bowdoin, HarveyMudd… have a similar policy for this level of income. I know Stanford guarantees free tuition for up to 125K, and more (room&board, books) for families who make less than 75K. HYPMS even include enough to cover his airline ticket to go home for Christmas and in the summer.
For your children (3, 4, and 5): a rigorous curriculum and high test scores are the best pathway to cheaper college. You’ll qualify for a LOT of aid for the “meet need” colleges. The hard part is getting in but these are the best bargains.
S2 goes to Geneva College.
the mom should run the NPC on GC’s website and put 2 in college and see what the result is (and the result would be for ONE student, not two).
The problem may be that Geneva wont give more aid to S2 once S3 is in college, other than maybe a Pell Grant (if qualified).
A two year degree should NOT even be considered for S3…not at all.
As to the question of For Profit Colleges:
List - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_for-profit_universities_and_colleges
Issues - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/For-profit_higher_education_in_the_United_States
Ok… 2nd son is at Geneva… very affordable… when people mention this EFC… I am not sure what to think… because that seems a joke… as PiTT was going to cost us like $10,000 out of pocket the 1st year … Geneva… about $3,000…
3rd son’s GPA will get him the $10,000 scholarship they offer… (just as 2nd son got it)… his GPA is 3.4 or higher… SAT scores 490 reading 610 Math 450 writing…
ACT English 22… Math 26,…Reading 19…Science 24… SCORE 23 …
His GPA on the ACT is listed at 3.69…
PTI got back to me with an estimate what it will cost us out of pocket for 2 years…
Parent Loan responsibility for this Associate degree… $24,000… Student Loan responsibility $14,500…
When we visited the school, they spoke of how they GAVE thousands -(a huge number ) in scholarships…for the students to take advantage of… if you do the application in time…plus an essay -they knock off a couple hundred… then there is another opportunity… then another to take advantage of…but really… this does not at all sound affortable to us… this is AS expensive as PITT, if not more so… as they do not even have a food plan… so WOW… that’s $12,000 a year plus what he buys in FOOD for 2 semesters … oh my! The total price tag is for $61,000 for 2 years there!!
MyOs1634 said: "Penn State is on the other hand of the spectrum. #1 for recruiting nationally. Great career fairs, career center, alumni network. A Penn State Engineering degree will command respect not just in PA but also OH, VA, MD, NYS, DE, DC, and most of the East Coast."
He did his application for Penn State today … for the Erie campus… which he can do all 4 yrs there… though this college was going to cost us $10,000 a year (parent responsibility) when 2nd son applied… and got accepted. … just as expensive as Pitt… again Geneva was the most affordable…
I wanted him to apply to Grove City but he is bucking his feet a little… feeling why bother. Geneva is where he wants to go… I like the idea having more options to choose from… he doesn’t like the fact he has to write WHY he wants to attend a christian college… his complaint today… this is on the application… he is a good kid who would mingle well with Christians (no drinking, partying , smoking, a more serious responsible type )… but really he wouldn’t call himself a christian… should HE apply… is this a requirement there?? they also like to do an interview with applicants…
It’s not a requirement for Geneva college. Just that you have to take the religious classes. 2nd son is LOVING Geneva … got a new GF (I know - I know!!)… he doesn’t miss coming home… enjoying his new friends… thinks the people are wonderful… he’s happy… he’s in the band… 3rd son is also a drummer… he hung out all day a couple days ago at Geneva… met the band director. … so it seems -if the price is right… this is a no brainer for us…
Thank you Erin’s dad for those links… I see PTI on that list… clear as day… WOW !! Eye opening… you guys are so wonderful on this forum !! I clicked on the 2nd link… it starts out saying this…
**"For-profit education in the United States (known as for-profit college or proprietary education in some instances) refers to higher education educational institutions operated by private, profit-seeking businesses. Historically, most colleges and universities in the US have been non-profit, but for-profit institutions rapidly grew in number and size in the late twentieth century.
Although supporters of for-profit higher education have argued that the profit motive encourages efficiency, the for-profit educational industry has received severe negative criticism because of its sales techniques, high costs, and poor student outcomes. In some cases operators of for-profit colleges have faced criminal charges or other legal sanctions"…**
Again… WOW… criminal charges… should anything surprise us today… seems everyone & everything is about the MONEY today… Eye opening… I need to now read more of that article !
MyOs1634 said: "However if the school doesn’t meet need and chooses not to adjust your contribution, :s. Contact financial aid office at S2’s college and ask what their policy will be, specifying S2 is an honors student there and that you won’t be able to pay for the same costs next year due to S3 going to college too.
Ok question… isn’t everything NON -negligible… this is what we Offer… take it or leave it… it’s on US (the parents, the student) to come up with whatever is not met… tough luck… we should have planned better… worked harder… something… I can see if a parent DIES, the breadwinner like my husband …going to financial aid and claiming a hardship or something but outside of this scenario… I feel I have no right to even ask these things… I am just at the mercy of the colleges we can afford…
MyOs1634 said : **With that income, your son would get an automatic full ride (free college) at Harvard, Yale, Princeton, MIT, etc. I think Williams, Pomona, Bowdoin, HarveyMudd… have a similar policy for this level of income. I know Stanford guarantees free tuition for up to 125K, and more (room&board, books) for families who make less than 75K. HYPMS even include enough to cover his airline ticket to go home for Christmas and in the summer.
For your children (3, 4, and 5): a rigorous curriculum and high test scores are the best pathway to cheaper college. You’ll qualify for a LOT of aid for the “meet need” colleges. The hard part is getting in but these are the best bargains.**
4th son does Pretty good in school… Math is also his better subject…
5 (Daughter) struggles in school.. absolutely hates school.. I don't exactly see this changing ... she's in 7th grade.. hates to read.. # 6 youngest son is in special classes -has trouble with directions.. suffice it to say.. they won't be going to Harvard. or anything with that sort of competition for excelling grades.. I think it's great these programs are out there for such students as they should NOT be denied..but trying to aim for this.. I can see it now.... they will look upon me as a Drill sergeant trying to destroy their lives.. It just isn't going to happen... getting the youngest to even remember his homework is like pulling teeth in our house. .
Just keeping it honest .